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My Fingers are Crossed

Corey Woods May 30, 2005 08:21 AM

I'm very interested to see what comes out of the clutch. I've had "het Caramels" since 1998 but have yet to produce any Caramels. This year she gave me 5 good eggs and 1 slug. She was bred to an unrelated Pastel 100% het Caramel.

The history of the breeding are as follows.

Het Caramel x Het Caramel 3 slugs in 2001

Het Caramel x Het Caramel 5 Good eggs and 1 Slug in 2002. 1 Albino (T-) and 4 normals hatched

Het Caramel x Het Caramel 6 Good Eggs in 2003. All normals.

So, out of 11 good eggs I've produced 1 "regular" Albino and 10 normals. Hopefully these 5 eggs will contain atleast 1 Caramel. I guess out of 16 eggs total I should hopefully know if I got screwed out of $10,000 US and 7 years of work.

Corey

Replies (12)

Ballboutique May 30, 2005 08:34 AM

You can bet my fingers are crossed for ya Corey!
Good luck! This has got to be the year.
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RicK @ BbI

Ball Boutique,Inc.
Proud sponsor of this forum

mkreptiles May 30, 2005 08:47 AM

i hope this is the year of the carmel!

Mike

Camlon Reptiles May 30, 2005 09:13 AM

we too have been waiting a long time (3 years) to produce Caramel Albinos and were working with hets, and as a matter of fact looked at yours in Daytona 2001. We finally got eggs this year, but with bad results 1.0 Caramel (kinked, tip of tail) and 0.0.1 Caramel (kinked so bad that we put it down) and 0.3 females that we would be afraid to breed back to the Het male or the kinked male Caramel.

We wish you good luck with yours and hope they all are OK!

Debra

Corey Woods May 31, 2005 08:51 AM

Debra,

That has always been my worry with the Caramels. Producing a clutch of kinked ones. I'd hate to produce the first cross using the Caramels and have them come out all messed up.

Hopefully I produce a caramel (kinked or not) so I can put an end to this mess.

I hope you are having a good breeding season.
Regards,
Corey

herphobbyist May 30, 2005 09:54 AM

Thats what I like about this forum! I never knew you could get normal albinos from a het caramel to het caramel breeding. Cool. Ron
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The Crawl Space

coldthumb May 30, 2005 11:36 AM

That is interesting.

Of the three good eggs i have out of my second(ever)clutch.The parents were both possible het for each type.
I think i would pass out either way,lol.( No matter which T type popped out.)

...and we all wanna see that pastel caramel!
Good luck Corey!
-----
Charles Glaspie

RandyRemington May 30, 2005 11:49 AM

I got 1.4 normals (and no morphs) last year from 66% chance het caramel X 50% chance het albino. Hopefully you will have better luck. Of course we will not know for sure if they are alleles or not until someone breeds homozygous caramel X homozygous albino.

Murphinski May 30, 2005 10:02 AM

since the bp gods have not been good to you in the past....they will make up for it this year......Caramels and Pastel Caramels!....WOOHOO!....

livingartreptile May 30, 2005 11:49 AM

Hi Corey,

I really hope you see results! After all the time vested you deserve results. I really hope you did not get shafted. Take care Corey.

Best Wishes,

Tony Pappalardo

Living Art Reptiles

playball May 30, 2005 02:32 PM

I sure hope you do produce a caramel Corey, if not, we can always blame the originator and his staff on smoking too much weed...

Good luck

Brian A.

RandyRemington May 30, 2005 09:12 PM

There are a number of explanations for this situation and I don't think negligence is even the most likely.

1. It could be just bad luck. We can't count the albino since it could also be homozygous caramel for all we know (per the basic assumption that they are independent genes and albino will cover caramel). So, although it really messes up the math, you have to exclude that one and the about 1 in 18 shot of going 0 for 10 from a pair of hets is rare but not like lotto odds or anything.

2. It could be a mix-up but those might be a lot easier to make than we generally think. Even if the mix-up happened before Corey got them we may be finding (especially since 1998) that sperm retention and perhaps even parthogenisis are moderately common in ball pythons. Sure would be nice if we had paternity tests!

3. It could be unexpected genetics. Albino and Caramel may be alleles - different mutations of the same gene. If I imported a Caramel looking male and he produced Caramel looking offspring I would assume he was homozygous caramel. If however it turns out that caramel and albino are different mutations of the same gene then double hets don't have a normal copy of that gene and probably will not look normal - maybe they will look caramel (heck, maybe they will tend not to kink too!). A situation like that would really throw a curve ball requiring some thinking outside the box to figure out. The allele theory was developed as an innocent explanation of Corey's situation but as far as I know no one with both Caramels and Albinos has taken it seriously enough the last two years to test it. If RDR's Lavender X Caramel clutch proves those two to be alleles in the next week then maybe next year someone will try Caramel X Albino.

Corey Woods May 31, 2005 08:52 AM

np

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