Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Finally read all the threads below (and NO I REALLY DON'T care who is tougher than who, JUST FACTS!), so I thought I'd post some evidence to back my opinion. Don't know about californiae or splendida, but here in the East, Kings DON'T avoid ringnecks. This pic is of a yearling eastern that I just found last night. I walked up to it's container this morning dropped in the ringneck and. . . well the pic tells the story. When I was a lot younger and lived in GA., feeding ringnecks to small Easterns was the norm for me, since I couldn't afford to feed them mice (I was too poor then). Ringnecks were abundant in SE. GA so I have witnessed this more often than I can remember. I can tell you that E. Kings (at least here in the south) respect ringnecks about as much as they do lizards & mice. My statements are only based on FACTS and/or pics and not meant to offend. The proof's in the pudding:

Zee

As you can tell Easterns DO NOT AVOID ringnecks - not even the young Easterns. And at least in my Easterns I have never witnessed a regurgitation of a ringneck. Here's the same snake finishing her meal:

Zee

Here's a pic of the same snake finishing her meal. As you can see young Easterns DO NOT avoid ringnecks - they eat them. And I have NEVER had any of my easterns to regurgitate a ringneck to my knowledge (I clean their cages every day) Like I said this is how it works here in the South East.

Zee

It burped on me and made me think the second post disappeared.

Zee

That was a great post and a good learning experience. Very intersting pic you posted. It was a good eye opener. Do I believe that Ringnecks are mildly venemous? Yes, but I think rattlers are too (I was bitten by one many years ago, LOL!). But I don't know about the validity of wether kings are immune to their venom or not. But in my experience I have to think that it doesn't matter to the E. kings that I've had (mainly GA. specimens)
FYI: I did have a Texas Indigo that also ate Ringnecks many years ago without any ill-effects.

Zee

what's gonna happen?
good post zee, i'd like to see a pic of that eastern in 4 days.

no ringnecks for this guy anyway

>>what's gonna happen?
>>good post zee, i'd like to see a pic of that eastern in 4 days.
>>
>>no ringnecks for this guy anyway
>>

What will happen? Roll of the dice. I did have an adult eastern king die after consuming 3 ringnecks I found all in the same week. It's possible one of them could have bitten the king in a sensitive spot. The incident happened about 15 years ago so my memory is spotty. Back then I just assumed that ringnecks were simply toxic to snake eating snakes (didn't know they were mildly venomous). Ever since I have never chosen to take the risk of feeding another ringneck to any king.

I wouldn't take the chance either, unless my king was a scrawny WC that i did'nt care about. thanks

Quotes Fitch (1975)..." Fitch (1975) reported predation on the Ringneck Snake in Douglas County by Copperheads, Timber Rattlesnakes, Racers, Milk Snakes, Bullfrogs, and three species of raptorial birds......"

Collins also estimates on one of his study sites that there are probably 750 Ringnecks/acre.

A constant food source for many snakes.

Kerby...

Here in Arizona we have many small terrestrial snakes with midly toxic/venomous saliva including the ringneck. Some of those other species includes;
Variable Sand Snake - Chilomeniscus stramineus
Mildly Toxic Saliva (not dangerous)
Western Shovel-nosed Snake - Chionactis occipitalis
Mildly Toxic Saliva (not dangerous)
Sonoran Shovel-nosed Snake - Chionactis palarostris
Mildly Toxic Saliva (not dangerous)
Ring-necked Snake - Diadophis punctatus
Mildly-Venomous (not considered dangerous)

So, the ringnecked snakes are nothing out of the ordinary for a small terrestrial snake that does have some toxicity and venom. I can also think off-hand of Western Hognosed Snakes that are;
Western Hog-nosed Snake - Heterodon nasicus
Mildly-Venomous (not considered dangerous)

For futher study of these snakes the sources where I got this information were these references.

Bartlett. 2000. Snakes of North America: Western Region. Gulf Publishing Co. Houston, TX
Behler. 1979. National Audubon Society Field Guide to North American Reptiles and Amphibians. Alfred A. Knopf Inc. New York, NY
Fowlie. 1965. The Snakes of Arizona. Azul Quinta Press, Fallbrook, California
Lowe, Schwalbe, Johnson. 1986. The Venomous Reptiles of Arizona. Nongame Branch Arizona Game and Fish Department. Phoenix, AZ
Stebbins. 1985. Western Reptiles and Amphibians. Houghton Mifflin. New York, NY

Thanks for the book list(i can never have enuff books)

I too live in Arizona, and we also have the Sonoran Lyre Snake that has mild venom and the Sonoran Night Snake.

Kerby...
SNAKES OF ARIZONA ! !

I was not questioning whether or not kings on the east would eat ringneck snakes or not, I know that they will. Kingsnakes on the eastern side of the U.S. have no reason to fear the puny 10" ringneck snakes, which have an absolutely disgraceful venom.

Nice pics though.
Now go feed a mississippi ringneck your kings.

Mike

Oh and hey, check your email...
Michael's Place

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that is feed an adult Diadophis to any of your easterns except maybe Big John.

Thnx a bunch for running that experiment out...I too am not surprised, but also wouldnt have been too taken aback had the king ignored it. Rossi & Rossi describe a remarkable observation of a longnosed snake eating a southern ringneck in Fl. & dying from a esophogeal bite! Thusly its not off the charts of possibility. Diadophis clearly display one of natures classic red-warning displays, that should result in behavior modifications of small generalist ophidian predators that see color. Your trial appears to exclude getulus from this suite, but who knows for jays & collared lizards???
As you likely know others have posted losing getulus kings & coralsnakes to ringnecks??? I doubt this to be true however or those spps., suredly would have evolved to ignore or flee Diadophis when they encountered them.

Pity folks want to derail this topic into a "toughsnake competition" rather than an opportunity to glimpse into the rockpiles & see how these spps likely live their lives together.

Also, a big thankyou to everyone who posts thoughtful posts &/or jpgs..theyre kindof a hassle to do & thus my thanks are overdue
I try not to answer too many posts, especially those I have little to add too

Tremendous disparity in size. If both same size give or take an inch or two the outcome could be very different indeed.

No it wouldn't.

Northern Ringneck Snake vs. Eastern Kingsnake

No matter the size, the Eastern King would win. Northern Ringnecks are less likely to consume snake prey, or even fight back against predator snakes. Their venom is also extremely weak compared to other sub-species'.

Mike
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kingsnake killers, i'll only feed garters to my kings anyway, if i ever feed snakes to snakes

kingsnake killers, LOL.

The western sub-species are pretty much the ones that will take down a kingsnake, as they are the largest, but even out of those 6 western sub-species, only 1 of them makes it a habit of preying entirely on snakes and lizards, the others will stick to salamanders or lizards.

I have heard of 1 Prairie ringneck snake(one of the smallest ssp of ringnecks)regurgitating a black kingsnake, larger than itself. And the prairie ringneck snake was only about 12" long.

Mike
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.

thank you very much you know a lot about snakes .

Its all about mass. That king is probably over 100 times the mass of that ringneck. It is of no importance that you call it a yearling. What would happen if that was reversed? Or even if the ringneck was double the mass if an eastern king? Or say put a hatchling eastern king in with a healthy 5 foot black racer. What would happen? You surely can guess that the larger ringneck or larger racer would eat the smaller kingsnake.

Again, if you put a 2 foot kingsnake of any kind in with an adult Indigo, the kingsnake is tucker(food) If you put a 2 foot indigo in with a 6 foot king, the indigo is tucker. All of this is only common sense.

I get the feeling you only wanted an excuse to kill a ringneck by feeding it to that large(by comparision) kingsnake. So to keep your karma balanced, please put that kingsnake in with a hungry healthy Indigo. Heck, indigos aren't even constrictors or rearfanged. FR

I apologise for that. Your experiment did show, a larger king eating a smaller ringneck. How's it doing now? FR

As a matter of fact, I DO own an Indigo! A nice 5 foot 21 month old Eastern Indigo. But unfortunately he already weighs more than my 76" Eastern King "Big John". Thought about putting them both together (under extreme close supervision for a couple of minutes) just to see who would flee first. . . . . . But then again . . .I love all my snakes. Found two large ringnecks this year (15" & 16" large for east coast standards) and liked those too, so I realesaed them. But little ones are very common.
My point in this "experiment" was to see if a freshly wild caught NC King would shun away from a ringneck (as someone had indicated in the other thread). I always knew in GA. they didn't. Other than that, it's been about 14 years since I fed a ringneck to an eastern. . . .

Zee

My point in this "experiment" was to see if a freshly wild caught NC King would shun away from a ringneck (as someone had indicated in the other thread).

Zee,

John(Regalringneck)indicated that cali kings would flee from regals in the same vicinity. There would be no reason for a 3 foot king to run from a 10" northern ringneck lol.

Mike
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