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long term "study" of suitable "Dry" substrates

Carmichael May 31, 2005 08:41 AM

Okay, this is not an official "study" but I have been experimenting with three different types of substrates for the past two years. All have their pros and cons and merits as a suitable use as a substrate. Perhaps this is a bit trivial as many of you already know the pros and cons of what I am going to say but for someone who may be new, perhaps this is useful information.

Newspaper: still, in my opinion, the best substrate for just about any herp. I still use it quite a bit at home and for many of our off display animals at the wildlife center I run (harmless and venomous alike). For one or two indigos, this is probably the best choice. Its free, parasite resistent, and does not pose a threat for ingestion.

"natural" substrate: I needed something that looked a bit more natural for my wildlife center for our indigo display and after lots of trial and error and experimentation, we found a substrate that looks great and works pretty well too. We basically combine torpedo sand/play sand/top soil/ESU Jungle Mix/Forest Humus/Dried-heat treated leaves that go on the top layer. The exact ratio is tough to say because we use a "Julia Child" approach (a little this, a little that) but in the end, it looks as natural as you can get. It is easily spot cleaned but because its a little darker, you spend more time going through the substrata looking for poop. If someone wants a super nice, naturalistic looking set up, this is not a bad way to go. This substrate, however, can get real heavy and if you are using plastic style cages, it could prove to be too much. Our exhibit indigo is in a very sturdy cherry-wood cage. My home indigos are kept in either Vision or Neodesha cages.

Aspen: I have never been a big fan of using aspen, however, for maintaining a large collection (in my opinion, anything over four by indigo standards is a pretty big collection!), I have found Aspen to be the best substrate choice. The indigos seem to like to burrow into the substrate. Because its light in color, feces is easily spotted and removed and the area can even be disinfected before putting in some additional bedding. The aspen absorbs odors very, very well (my wife doesn't call me every day at work telling me that one of the indigos just took a dump. Or, I don't come home from work and see the whole house lit up by scented candles...a subtle hint from my wife that an indigo did his doody). If you don't stay on top of spot cleaning, though, the room/cage will have a bit of an ammonia odor so it is important to keep the bedding clean and dry but this is fairly easy, even for a large collection. I haven't had any problem sheds despite the rather dry appearance (although my indigos do have access to a humidity chamber that is a sterilite box filled with 3" of slightly dampened newspaper strips or towels). Although the indigos do ingest a little when they feed, it has never caused any impaction problems and they defecate just fine. Some of my messier feeders get fed in a separate, bare floor cage. As long as the prey is completely dry after soaking/thawing, the bedding doesn't tend to stick too much.

CareFresh is another great product but due to the high costs, I don't use it that much. Cypress, though great at holding humidity and easily obtained, is very difficult to keep clean and poses a real danger for ingesting one of those big splinters which will certainly cause beaucoup problems if not death. Plus, I don't like to encourage the destruction of our cypress swamps that are vanishing at a rapid rate. Sani-Chips is one I would also highly recommend but I don't have a resource nearby for getting it on a regular basis; if I did, that would be my choice....great stuff.

You can't go wrong with any of the above choices that I talked about; a lot depends on what you are trying to accomplish as a hobbyist (exhibit to show off to your buddies, something easy to maintain, something that is cheap to maintain). Anyway, nothing earth shattering here, just thought I would share some of our observations over a 2-year period. Perhaps others have different substrates that they have used with success that they would like to share.

Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

Replies (8)

herphobbyist May 31, 2005 12:29 PM

Sani-Chips is one I would also highly recommend but I don't have a resource nearby for getting it on a regular basis; if I did, that would be my choice....great stuff.

Rob,
Harlan Teklad in Madison WI. & Indianpolis, IN. have the Sani Chips. I think they deliver with a fairly small order. Ron
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The Crawl Space

Carmichael May 31, 2005 12:43 PM

Thanks for the lead; I will see if I can track down their phone number. Many thanks, Rob

>>Sani-Chips is one I would also highly recommend but I don't have a resource nearby for getting it on a regular basis; if I did, that would be my choice....great stuff.
>>
>>Rob,
>> Harlan Teklad in Madison WI. & Indianpolis, IN. have the Sani Chips. I think they deliver with a fairly small order. Ron
>>-----
>>The Crawl Space
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

herphobbyist May 31, 2005 02:18 PM

United States
Harlan World Headquarters
P.O. Box 29176
Indianapolis, Indiana 46229-0176
USA
Tel.: (317) 894-7521
Fax: (317) 894-1840
Email: harlan@harlan.com

Harlan Teklad
P.O. Box 44220
Madison, Wisconsin 53744-4220
USA
Tel.: (608) 277-2070
Fax: (608) 277-2066
Email: teklad@teklad.com
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The Crawl Space

Mike Meade May 31, 2005 03:34 PM

Funny these two threads are so close together. The only time I have been bitten by one of my easterns was when feeding him a small rat. He had it half way down and I noticed a big cypress splinter about to go down the hatch with it.

Without thinking I tried to pull the cypress out of his mouth. He nailed me in mid swallow and continued about his business. And of course, my wife saw the whole thing. "That was stupid" was her only response.

Good news is the bite was superficial and the cypress did no harm to the snake. But now I don't use cypress any more. I'm trying DCL (disposable cage liner) now and I like it pretty well. I spill some water on it when the snakes are in shed and they seem to be doing fine with it. It looks a little more natural than newspaper and is much more durable.

Eric East May 31, 2005 06:15 PM

Rob,

I used to use sani-chips back when I used to maintain a much larger collection (around 100 snakes, mostly rosy boas) and I loved them!
That is until one of my breeder male cal kings lost his hemipene do to impaction. Evidently a few of the small chips got wedged in around the hemipene during breeding and prevented him from retracting it. By the time I noticed it, the hemipene was all dried up and crusty.

I took him to the vet who was going the amputate it & charge me about $60. Needless to say I wasn't willing to pay that kind of money only to have a "pet" cal king. I told the vet that there were 2 options: 1) I would put him (snake, not vet)in the freezer or 2) he could keep the snake in lieu of payment. He opted for door #2.

So, the lesson for the day is do NOT use sani-chips in breeding cages.

PS. there used to be a distributor in the Chicago area that I got mine from. I don't remember who though. It may have been Scott Michaels???

Eric
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If Jesus is your co-pilot, you'd better change seats!

lateralis May 31, 2005 06:45 PM

Anyone ever tried using the olive green masking paper that painters use? Comes in nice size rolls, you just tear it to length and it looks like flat green terrain. Check it out...
Cheers
Brett

stevet May 31, 2005 10:54 PM

I use something called fibersorb (or fibresorb?) that is by far the best in my cages. I have a dozen indigos and they make a big mess. newspaper is too messy because doesnt absorb well enough, and I never thought the aspen absorbed enough either and the watery droppings would just flow through onto the bottom of the cage. fibersorb is like carefresh but with much smaller pieces and is extremely absorbent so the droppings soak in immediately and i can just lift the whole wet spot out and throw it away, like cat litter. plus my smaller snakes burrow right into it to hide.

epidemic Jun 01, 2005 08:57 AM

I prefer unprinted newspaper. If you have a newspaper Co. in town, they will normally give you the left over paper on the large rolls they run through the presses and there is quite a bit of paper on them to boot, as they stop using them when there is about 3" - 4" deep left on the role, which translates to about enough paper to cover the bottom of 20-30 enclosures with a floor space measuring 8' x 4'. All they have asked of me is to return the empty spools, which I gladly do whenever I return to "reload".
Thanks goes to DB for giving me this tip a few years back...

Best regards,

Jeff
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Jeff Snodgres
University of Arkansas
snodgresjeffreys@uams.edu
501.603.1947

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