Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Here are my Erpeton, I currently have 2.4.8, w/ two gravid females.

One is "blue." Should shed soon.

Don't you love the strong yellow tint of the water?

Fresh neonates, already eating!

-----
Justyn Miller
Intense Herpetoculture
www.IntenseHerp.com (Proudly hosted by Fauna Net)

Awesome, How long have you had them now? Any suggestions for keeping them? Let me know when your ready to sell some of your captive bred.

I have not had them too long, recent imports that I was able to handpick. While I was at the Fort Worth Zoo we kept the adults in a 50 gallon, w/ wood, pea gravel, and pothos. Used a Magnum canister filter. Used regular water (which has a pH about 9.2) and feed them shiner minnows. The juvs were kept in a 29 gallon with a sponge filter, glass bottom, reg. water. Proved very easy and care-free at the zoo that stemed from a CB colony.

I kept my adults (2.4) in a 65 gallon, black gravel, 350 Magnum canister filter (you can NEVER over filter), oak branches, peat in filter, pondweed, and limestone rocks. I am feeding them minnows and a few goldfish. I was able to handpick them out at an importes, they all seemed to come in pretty good. Most of the time they come in pretty crappy, I've tried over the years to keep them. I think this time means success.

The juvs (0.0.8) I have in a 10 gallon w/ sponge filtration, pea gravel, oak branches, peat, pond weed, and feeding them minnows. They are doing great so far. Pretty sure I won't have a problem with them.

Hoping to get a colony of 25 going before I offer any for sale. I'm sure you'll see me offer them after I reach that number.

>>Awesome, How long have you had them now? Any suggestions for keeping them? Let me know when your ready to sell some of your captive bred.
-----
Justyn Miller
Intense Herpetoculture
www.IntenseHerp.com (Proudly hosted by Fauna Net)

Captive bred seem to be quite hardy. Glad to hear that you are having success with your imports, are keeping the PH as high for them? Once aclimated it seem they adjust to a variety of water conditions, so I've no doubt the captive bred could tolerate a PH that high, but I would be suprized to hear that the imports are doing well with it.

Being a fish buff, I don't really see how pH is an issue, except that bacterial and fungal problems are more likely to occur in pH above 7.0. This is only an issue because ammonia and nitrites are more toxic at a higher pH then a lower one. So, it all comes down to water quality. If the snakes are packaged, shipped, and held correctly you will not have acclimation issues if you maintain good water quality. Unfortunatly, this is not often the case. Most of the time they are shipped in dry snake bags or if your lucky a moist substrate. This causes excessive abrasions during transport. On top of it all, the importer rarely keeps them in acceptable conditions upon arrival. So by the time you aquire the WC recent imports, they are in a stressed/sensitive stage. Most reptile keepers do not understand pH, ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, salinity, hardness, etc. So it is no wonder why people have problems with them. I mean, look at turtles in the hobby. How often do you see a crystal clear tank? Do they check the water conditions often? What kind of filters are they using. Exactly, it is rarely set up correctly. So if you have a good understanding of the nitrification cycle in regards to biological filtration, you should be good. Don't forget, you still have to treat them like snakes. That means, escape proof cage, hiding places, secure feeding areas, avoiding overcrowding, and reducing stress. I really do think it is quite simple if you know what you're doing.

>>Captive bred seem to be quite hardy. Glad to hear that you are having success with your imports, are keeping the PH as high for them? Once aclimated it seem they adjust to a variety of water conditions, so I've no doubt the captive bred could tolerate a PH that high, but I would be suprized to hear that the imports are doing well with it.
-----
Justyn Miller
Intense Herpetoculture
www.IntenseHerp.com (Proudly hosted by Fauna Net)

I am quite familiar with the nitrofication cycle, and I am less inclined to blame the distributers, since the snakes that I've tried were healthy upon arrival. I have not used canster filters, because I have had some issues using them with fish. If there is a black out or if they shutdown for whatever reason the quickly become quite nasty with anerobic bacteria. However, when running properly canister filters are pretty good at removing microscopic particles from the water, so that may be important. It may just be a matter of odds too. What is your ratio of wild caught snakes that have survived? I agree that most keepers who do not have aquarium experience, probably get it all screwed up, but there are people like me who were careful with water conditions and still had problems. Granted I have only tried one group of three, but I was suprised at how badly they did despite my attentions to water conditions. I am assuming that being knowlegable about fish tanks, that your aquariums are well established before adding the snakes, have you found them to do better in tanks supporting algae growth? Personally, the next time I try them, I would rather start with captive bred if I can get a hold of them. So, definetly put me on your waiting list for when you are ready to sell.

Wel, it's just not the distributors, it's the collectors and exporters as well. I have no doubt that they are often kept in unclean conditions pre-export. This could cause possible kidney failure, which would take it's toll several months down the road. So far out of 6 imports, all but one are doing great. The female that recently gave birth isn't doing so hot. She's currently not eating and it breathing deeply form time to time. Hopefully this will pass and she'll come up to speed. As for canisters, they are the best money can buy. I don't realy establish the aquariums prior to introducing the snakes, but my filters are generally from previous set-ups allowing rapid "good" bacteria growth. As for algae, that theory seems unfounded and I don't see much in it. Once I get a good colony going you'll see some for sale.

>>I am quite familiar with the nitrofication cycle, and I am less inclined to blame the distributers, since the snakes that I've tried were healthy upon arrival. I have not used canster filters, because I have had some issues using them with fish. If there is a black out or if they shutdown for whatever reason the quickly become quite nasty with anerobic bacteria. However, when running properly canister filters are pretty good at removing microscopic particles from the water, so that may be important. It may just be a matter of odds too. What is your ratio of wild caught snakes that have survived? I agree that most keepers who do not have aquarium experience, probably get it all screwed up, but there are people like me who were careful with water conditions and still had problems. Granted I have only tried one group of three, but I was suprised at how badly they did despite my attentions to water conditions. I am assuming that being knowlegable about fish tanks, that your aquariums are well established before adding the snakes, have you found them to do better in tanks supporting algae growth? Personally, the next time I try them, I would rather start with captive bred if I can get a hold of them. So, definetly put me on your waiting list for when you are ready to sell.
-----
Justyn Miller
Intense Herpetoculture
www.IntenseHerp.com (Proudly hosted by Fauna Net)

Well, I am impressed 1/6 is exellent for any wildcaught species. You are the only one I have spoken to that has had such an easy time with them, the next time I try them, I will not be concerned with the PH and use a canister filter. Let me know when you have them for sale, I'll be around.

One of my newly imported females is starting to show signs of swelling near the cloaca extending about 3 inches how big around do these little snakes get before delivering?shes barely 1.5-2ft long is that big enough for her to be gravid?

Well, she is not gravid, otherwise she would have a little over 1/3 of her body extended. That is either a meal being processed or perhaps a possible abcess. I'll try to take a few pics of some gravid females to give you a better idea on what thjey look like. Also, how do you know it's a female? They can be very difficult to sex. I have been taught that the best way to sex Erpeton (by one of the best) is to measure the girth of the cloaca, then measure about an inch towards the tail. If it is about the same, you have a male, if it drops off a bit, you have a female.

>>One of my newly imported females is starting to show signs of swelling near the cloaca extending about 3 inches how big around do these little snakes get before delivering?shes barely 1.5-2ft long is that big enough for her to be gravid?

-----
Justyn Miller
Intense Herpetoculture
www.IntenseHerp.com (Proudly hosted by Fauna Net)

rechecked the snake tody after reading your reply, the snake definately looks pregnant the area extends from the base of the cloaca to only several 3-5 inches below the head. What time of year do these snakes drop babies? I'm really hoping shes gravid, but dont wanna jinx it.
Fingers crossed,
Douglas L. Williams

Nope, still not gravid, she looks too small as well. I'l try to remember to post some pics.

>>rechecked the snake tody after reading your reply, the snake definately looks pregnant the area extends from the base of the cloaca to only several 3-5 inches below the head. What time of year do these snakes drop babies? I'm really hoping shes gravid, but dont wanna jinx it.
>>Fingers crossed,
>>Douglas L. Williams
>>
-----
Justyn Miller
Intense Herpetoculture
www.IntenseHerp.com (Proudly hosted by Fauna Net)

NP