Reptile & Amphibian Forums

My mom is being really rude about the snake my Grandmother gave me. He's a wild caught western hognose, as best I can tell, and he isn't used to eating rats. I told mom I had to slowly convert him, but she expects immediate results, or I have to let him go. She refuses to let me feed him toads or frogs. I need to know the quickest and most efficient way of training a hognose to eat fuzzy rats/mice before Mom makes me release him.
wants to keep her snake,
cali
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Cali
"Beauty is in the eye, but if the eye is ugly, it can see no beauty."
"Hand over the coffee and no one gets hurt."
-Garfield..
When life hands you lemons, throw them back and say "MAKE YOUR OWN @#$*^$ LEMONADE!!"
thexelahfiles@yahoo.com

What works for me is scenting a frozen/thawed correct sized mouse with the water from a can of tuna. Hope it works out!
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0.1 Western Hognose
0.1 Common Corn

Thank you Dewaine. I'm going to try that A.S.A.P.
Hopefully it works.
I really don't have the money to get a CB snake. I'd love to, but MONEY is a problem in our family. it got bad at one point, and I started raising rats for Draco.
Anyway, I will be getting him a pinkie/fuzzy rat soon, out of the latest litter of ratlings I have.
Thanks,
Cali
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Cali
"Beauty is in the eye, but if the eye is ugly, it can see no beauty."
"Hand over the coffee and no one gets hurt."
-Garfield..
When life hands you lemons, throw them back and say "MAKE YOUR OWN @#$*^$ LEMONADE!!"
thexelahfiles@yahoo.com

Thank you Dewaine. I'm going to try that A.S.A.P.
Hopefully it works.
I really don't have the money to get a CB snake. I'd love to, but MONEY is a problem in our family. it got bad at one point, and I started raising rats for Draco.
Anyway, I will be getting him a pinkie/fuzzy rat soon, out of the latest litter of ratlings I have.
Thanks,
Cali
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Cali
"Beauty is in the eye, but if the eye is ugly, it can see no beauty."
"Hand over the coffee and no one gets hurt."
-Garfield..
When life hands you lemons, throw them back and say "MAKE YOUR OWN @#$*^$ LEMONADE!!"
thexelahfiles@yahoo.com

sorry about the reply being repeated..My computer was acting up a bit..
Cali

There are a couple of issues you are dealing with here that are limiting your success. The biggest is that it is the wild caught snake. In addition, hognoses in particular seem to be heavily parasitized, and taking it to a veterinarian to be thoroughly tested and dewormed is an absolute must.

Your mother has some very good points. Some wild caught snakes simply do not adjust to captivity, and it is a common practice that if the snake doesn't feed in the first few weeks it is released where it was found instead of taking the chance of letting it wither away. I also agree with your mother about not feeding it amphibians. I also don't understand circumstances like these where an animal is taken from the wild wind it is very common in the pet trade and is captive bred by the thousands every year. How can you justify taking a risk with this snake's life when there are so many available westerns that will readily eat mice?

To answer your question more directly, consult my post below about converting Easterns to mice.
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"I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully."
Governor George W. Bush, Jr.

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
Calvin and Hobbes (Scientific Progress Goes 'Boink', 1991)

I beleive he said that there is a financial situation within the family. This is why he had to go with a wild caught.
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Steve W.

>>I beleive he said that there is a financial situation within the family. This is why he had to go with a wild caught.

How in the world is that an excuse?? If the person does not have enough money to pay the very nominal fee of the animal itself, how can they possibly afford veterinarian bills that are inevitable? As I mentioned in my previous post, wild caught snakes deserve a vet visit first thing. I would hope that anyone that has taken the responsibility of holding a cherished animal's life in their hands, would commit themselves to high quality care. The highest form of accreditation for zoos and aquariums, the American Zoo and Aquarium Association, insists only upon the HIGHEST quality of care available. In my opinion, and many other professionals I can assure you, if someone does not have the money to provide basic veterinary care for an animal, or doesn't believe it is necessary, has absolutely NO having animals. Keep in mind that in most municipalities, intentionally withholding veterinary care is a misdemeanor and in the case of mine, a felony.

Steve: this post is not directed solely at you, but is to emphasize my points to the original poster and to any other readers of this forum.
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"I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully."
Governor George W. Bush, Jr.

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
Calvin and Hobbes (Scientific Progress Goes 'Boink', 1991)

I was quoting his statement about the family having financial troubles. It is not for you or I to judge the situation they are in. I agree that there may be times that a herp may need veterinary care but not as often as a cat or dog for example. To say that every animal needs a trip to the vet is absurd. Lets here from "professionals" and non-professionals on this issue. The issue being, "must" all herps have to go to the vet. I'm not saying you are 100% wrong, just not reasonable.
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Steve W.

...as a studying/practicing veterinary technician is that all captive animals need an annual "wellness" visit at minimum. Any newly acquired animal should be taken to the vet out of good measure. Many animals may appear outwardly healthy, but could (and often do) harbor a myriad of problems internally that may only be detected by diagnostic studies. Why *not* give the living being entrusted to your care the medical attention it deserves? If money is so tight that you cannot afford this minimal level of care, WAIT before purchasing/adopting/keeping the animal until at least annual veterinary care is feasible. (You should also have some funds stored away in case of an emergency.) You will be glad you did and so will your animal.

Jennifer Webb
(Jungle Gems Exotics)
www.JungleGemsExotics.com

O

Good luck Califia- stand up for your hognose, girl!

Hogs are way cool and crazy snakes, excellent choice if you can only have one snake...but not so easy as a first-ever snake to keep them eating!

Have you tried your snake and had it refuse a meal?

Many hogs will take live rodents that won't take froz/thawed...start it with slow, easy prey...you may have to drop a fuzzy on the snake's back a few time to annoy it (the snake, I mean)(do this with tongs or whatever, don't get chomped by the hog!) and draw it' attention.

Some hogs have been known to eat fish like feeder rosies...

Applause for your maturity in understanding the snake is the one deciding what it's going to eat, and that you have to work with it's natural responses and work to redirect those, lots of people get snakes and think "I'll just convert it to mice" and it's not that easy!

Possible points to make to Mom:
A) the snake will be much better off if it's given "comfortable food" while it acclimates to it's new home and human interaction- two big stresses especially for a WC, best advice is get it eating and healthy in it's new home then it will be much more likely to take different foods.

B) Have a reasonable discussion why not feed amphibians, etc?
Is she a huge herp lover if rats are okay to feed but frogs aren't?

We're not talking about the world's rarest opera-warbling frogsters are we? Along the lines of feeder fish, tadpoles are pretty plentiful, there are more in my goldfishpond than will survive anyway, if I net a few out I am just one more force for natural selection, the same number will ultimately survive anyway...and the same goes for common frogs in the same fishpond. And you might catch a single frog, kill it (yes that's hard on the heart to do) and freeze it, and use it to scent multiple mice.

Don't freak about parasites, just be considerately concerned, if your animal is healthy. It's just a big deal as you don't want a WC introducing pests to any other herps you're keeping, so keep it very separate... If you plan to keep a WC animal longterm, it would probably be wise to give it some anti-worm and anti-biotics at some point. But as long as the snake isn't overstressed, WC mostly aren't simply going to die from whatever they have already got.

Most vets understand money issues and one may be willing to just sell you the medicine without the $150 office visit, especially if you do your internet research and don't ask, but tell them what you want, why, what dosage for what weight animal, etc, demonstrate you are really on top of it.

Lastly (sorry for the long and disorganized post) there is a huge amount of info about hognose reluctant feeders listed on this forum already, there are zillions of tricks...be patient and give a technique a chance a few times, but change to another tactic if one realy isn't getting any attention...

Good luck! Show this to your snake for inspiration:

Thanks Wombat. If it comes down to it, I will release him.
I am beginning to prefer Hogs to Red tail Boas for one reason.
THEY DON'T BITE as much. I've been hoping to sell my Red Tail so that I can afford to get the box turtle and the hognose a good supply of foods/meds. The problem: Draco's too big. Nobody wants a huge snake....which is bad for me. I took care of him, and he grew, and now nobody wants him.

anyway..I went off topic.
Mom loves her toads. My aunt suggested Leopard frogs, there's an overabundance at her house.
I've tried to scent by just rubbing the toad on the rat..and the toad pee..I am definitely trying the toad saliva and the tuna-fish water..
I've studied up on so many animals, sometimes the info becomes..confused.
I'm off to try and feed my hog!!
THANKS!!
Califia
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Cali
"Beauty is in the eye, but if the eye is ugly, it can see no beauty."
"Hand over the coffee and no one gets hurt."
-Garfield..
When life hands you lemons, throw them back and say "MAKE YOUR OWN @#$*^$ LEMONADE!!"
thexelahfiles@yahoo.com

has any one ever seen a hognose eat a rat before, I have not. That may be the whole problem. try a pinkie mouse. and dont take the newley cought snake to the vet where it will be tramutized. get it to eat first then take it after a week or so, and dont hold your freshly cought hog either let it be quiet around a few days, and put the pinkie in the enclosure with out any vibration, and get a misting bottle and mist the cage once a week or so, they love it...jb

Well...alot can be written/argued in 3 days. Thank you all for your help. We will be trying to convert him, and if I can find a herp vet, I will try to take him.
Thanks!!!
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Cali
"Beauty is in the eye, but if the eye is ugly, it can see no beauty."
"Hand over the coffee and no one gets hurt."
-Garfield..
When life hands you lemons, throw them back and say "MAKE YOUR OWN @#$*^$ LEMONADE!!"
thexelahfiles@yahoo.com

Correction on sex
The hognose is a SHE who has laid 2 good eggs so far (I caught her late. there were 3 there..but two were...ugh)
She laid the 2nd one this morning..
I'm probably gonna let her go if the eggs hatch and convert the hatchlings.
Any tips on feeding baby hogs?

I'm EXCITED!!
Cali