Below is Bob Pound's reply to posting on another forum regarding why you should not use products that seem to be similar in terms of ingredients.
RE: Starting to shed?
1.
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Posted by: promist at Mon Mar 14 19:37:03 2005 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]
Your "recommendation" can lead to potential health problems, acute or chronic with one's reptiles.
Provent-a-mite is a unique, patented product and not the same as any other brand. Our formula is not duplicated by any other company. Making this assumption can be a deadly mistake. Not only are you wrong, but your statements could cause someone to buy these other products only to potentially create health problems and even death with their reptiles (which has happened already).
This is like saying that laundry detergent and hand dishwashing liquid are the same because they are both "soap". Try to soak your snake in powdered laundry detergent and see what the "active & inert" ingredients can cause. There are different isomers of permethrin which all have different toxicity levels as well as the synergists, surfactants and other inerts (which make up over 99% of the formula), many which are toxic to reptiles that are used in these other products. None of this is or has to be disclosed on the label.
Different, more toxic isomers are widely used in many products as they pose no risk to humans, mammals or birds as a rule, but they are definitely more toxic to reptiles. Most of these products also use chemicals such as Piperonyl butoxide in their formula, which is a synergist that modifies and increases the toxicity of the active in various ways. One will find that most formulations use this and/or other synergists as it is much cheaper than the active and creates a more lethal product.
Studies have been done, and products are marketed, showing that Piperonyl butoxide as well as other chemicals are definitely toxic to reptiles, regarding the killing of brown tree and other snakes, and improve the formula to do just that. You can do a search on these products used in the South Pacific and Indonesia that use various formulas to KILL snakes. They are packaged in high pressure containers (like a wasp & hornet spray) so you can hit the snake up to 20 feet away.
These products can be absolutely lethal to snakes. Many product labels can appear to be the same or very similar as Provent-a-mite as to the generic active, but they are very different products.
There are many other chemicals in these formulas that will never be made public and since the manufacture did not make any claims to the EPA (or on the label) that the product would be safe and effective on reptiles, no such studies or proof would be required. Many of these inerts can be potentially toxic to reptiles and since no tests or studies have ever been performed, no one knows. Since all formulas are proprietary and secret, no one will ever know what is really in the can and will only be sure that the product is OK to use with reptiles if that claim is specifically on the label. This is why it is a federal offense to sell, distribute, offer for sale, promote or use any pesticide for an unlabeled use. The EPA enforces this, as using a pesticide indiscriminately for a non tested use can have deleterious effects on the site, host and environment and they do not want any such problems to develop.
Also many of these products are designed to break down quickly, which will expose the mites and ticks to a sub-lethal dose, which can lead to(and has with other species of ectoparasites)creating a resistant strain of ectoparasites that would be difficult if not impossible to eradicate!
Call these companies and ask if their product is safe to use on reptiles, and to put it in writing and see what response you get. Many people have learned the hard way that these products are not the same formula as Provent-a-mite. Often, these products can cause chronic long term problems, so one never associates the demise of the animal with a mite treatment done previously as well as outright death of the reptile.
Provent-a-mite is the only product approved by the EPA and the USDA, specifically for use with reptiles (no other product can say this). Provent-a-mite is approved for the uses stated on our label for which such an approval would not have been granted without submitting the required efficacy and toxicity studies.
The EPA requires very detailed studies done by a specific set of protocols in order to register a formula for a specific use. These studies must follow certain guidelines and conform to such certifications as GLP (good laboratory practices) or equivalent. We spent 6 years and several tests/studies before we received EPA approval for our product to be used specifically on reptiles. This was after the approximately 10 years we spent developing the formula. We had to show that Provent-a-mite didn't hurt the reptile, had efficacy results per our claims and did not pose any risk or environmental hazards when used per the directions as set forth in our submittal.
Most of our studies, like any other company, contain proprietary information, so will never be released to the public. However, there are a few completed, non proprietary studies that either have been published or will be soon.
What follows is an excerpt from a paper that will be published in the near future in a recognized scientific journal. Until it is published, we can't provide any additional information.
"...However, it was realized that different formulations of acaricides contain different ingredients in addition to the active compound, some of which might be toxic to reptiles. For example, Piperonyl butoxide, added to some formulations as a synergist, has been associated with snake mortality.
Therefore, commercially available permethrin formulations were examined and only one, a patented formulation containing 0.5% permethrin called Provent-a-mite™(Pro Products, Mahopac, New York), was found which had been prepared specifically for use on reptiles and which had been marketed in the United States for several years as an acaricide for control of mites and ticks that feed on reptiles. The clinical effects of application of Provent-a-mite™ were studied on three species of reptiles by direct application to African spurred tortoises (Geochelone sulcata) and by application to the bedding of rosy boas (Lichanura trivirgata) and green iguanas (Iguana iguana), using on each occasion 10 times the recommended dosage every fifth day for a total of six applications. Despite the excessive doses of acaricides applied, no evidence of toxic reactions related to treatment with the permethrin formulation was found in any of the three species of reptiles treated, suggesting that Provent-a-mite™ is a safe product to use as an acaricide for control of ticks on tortoises, snakes and lizards..."
People are always making claims about various pesticides and state they are OK to use with reptiles when they have no knowledge as to what chemicals are even in the formula. Even with a product that lists the same "generic" active, the active can be a different toxicity and the remainder of the formula will always be a mystery. Just because one does not see any negative outward effects after using an off labeled product, certainly doesn't mean that it is not causing chronic health problems to the animal over the long term or creating other problems, such as the potential for resistant mites or other environmental damage.
No Pest strips were once considered safe (and some people still hang on to this theory), but after many years of our reptiles being guinea pigs, it was found that they are harmful, both acutely and chronically. Some of our leading vets, including Douglas Mader as well as several zoos have confirmed this. Unless the product has been specifically tested and approved for use by the USEPA, no one can state whether or not it can be harmful to a reptile.
Provent-a-mite, when used as directed, only costs about 50 cents per application to treat a 2' x 4' cage and does not require the time and expense to repeatedly cleaning and disinfect your cages as other methods do. When used as a preventative treatment to stop potentially disease carrying mites and ticks before they can infect and infest one's animals, it only costs about 5 cents for the average cage. It has an average shelf life of approximately 7 years.
Bob @ Pro Products
Pro Products
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Matt Campbell
25 years herp keeping experience
Full-time zookeeper
Personal collection - 21 snakes (9 genera), 20 lizards (4 genera), 6 chelonians (2 genera)
