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Well we went to the Vet.............and as soon as he saw her he knoew there was in infection of some sort.....so he did his thing...........and he was quite amazed to find nothing you would expect to see........her mouth/throat were clear........very swollen but quite good looking.........nothing in her nose.......nothing hindering her breathing........

He reccommended getting her on Fortaz.........so we shall see.....

Can Fortaz have a negative effect on a gravid female? At this point i realy dont care about the clutch......im more worried about her health..........

Thanks to all who replied!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for the help.

Jared Horenstein
R.P.R.

Jared,

Fortaz is safe to use on gravid females. I've used it in the breeding season on snakes without ill effects. The vet I was using years ago used to use it on pregnant sheep/goats (she treated farm animals as well as domestic "pet". I don't like Baytril for multiple reasons but it isn't safe to use on gravid females.

Fortaz works on a number of infections so I'd be very surprised if it didn't work on your female.

Regards,
Corey

My advice is to leave her alone until she drops.....

She has 2 bad things going for her right now.... she is sick and she is gravid. Dont make it 3 by having to disturb her to give her the meds.....

Give her a nice warm hide and let her be till she lays.... She will feel a lot better once she does and then you can start on the meds......

Just my opinion and people might not agree.... You are seasoned Veteran I am sure you will make the right choice....

Good luck Jared.....

Raul

I had a girl with a similar swelling. You may remember her?
I made a website about her illness. I don`t know if it will help but you are welcome to use any of the information.

There are a couple of links near the bottom as well.

Hope your girl does OK!!

krawls

Pearl`s Story

Hey Jared,

I hope the treatment works! I am glad she's not worse off. Good luck and take care.

Best Wishes,

Tony Pappalardo
L.A.R.

I've seen something similar a few years back on a friends boa. He brought her to the vet, had all types of tests done to check for infection all were negative but antibiotics were started as a precautionary measure. Antibiotics did nothing to help the condition. As luck would have it, the vet had another "patient" bring in their dog who was suffering from a similar malody that turned out to be a clogged saliva gland. The vet checked decided to treat the boa for this and everything cleared up relatively quickly.

I do not know what treatment was prescribed. But, if nothing else seems to be working (or coming up positive in the various fecals, cultures and/or blood work) maybe your vet could look into this possibility?

Just a suggestion. I know it's a long shot.

Good luck.
-----
www.mosaicmorphs.com

Jared,

I have quite a bit of experience over the years with LIVE bearing snakes and giving antibiotics. I agree with what Corey said somewhat. However, Baytril is an EXCELLENT antibitic in treating GRAM negative Bacteria. You will have NO ill effects using it on a gravid female as I have had a few female (BOAS) in the past being put on Baytril while gravid with NO ill effects.

Now, with more knowledge and advanced medicine, you'll see that FORTAZZ is a great drug, and probably one of the Best for BOIDS. However, it is EXCELLENT to use in conjunction with Baytril. I would ALWAYS treat a Ball with BOTH if I had an infection that looked similar. In my opinion you couldn't go wrong. I HAVE NEVER used Baytril on a gravid Ball, as I have never had to treat a GRAVID Ball python YET. (HOPEFULLY I WON'T HAVE TO). HOwever, I have treated a nose infection with Baytril and Fortazz last year, and the female went on to give EGGS that hatched later in the year a short time after.

So, this is my experience.

WHY I would say that you can use Baytril (WITH CORRECT DOSING) without ill effects is that it is absolutley the BEST drug at treating GRAM NEGATIVE Bacteria in Snake infections. I have watched as a Lab has done CULTURES on growths of infections that We have broughtin over the years, and Dr. Kelly at the UTAH STATE UNIVERSITY LAB always calls me wtih NEW information as she is HEAD vet, and she knows I LOVE the new info she gives me.

She has told me that FORTAZZ is an EXCELLENT killer of Gram Negative Bacteria. (The MOST COMMON Bacteria in BOIDS). However, BAYTRIL will kill it even faster. However, FORTAZZ can kill other pathagons that may be present or up and coming. The GREAT thing about Baytril is that it can do the same thing FORTAZZ doesn't. IT can kill some Pathagons that fortazz may not reach, so you can NOT go wrong in using Both, and USING BOTH in my opinion is BY far the Best way to Irradicate any Bacteria. I was speaking to Scott Stahl 2 weeks ago, and he told me this is ABSOLUTLEY correct.

Baytril is VERY NON TOXIDIC. However, Amikacin on the other hand is EXTREEMLY harmful to the liver if dosed in high doses. However, Amicacin is one of the better drugs too. IF you ask Scott Stahl, his favorite DOSING is a combo of Fortaz and Amikacin. I PERSONALLY prefer Fortazz and Baytril because Baytril is quite non toxic used in good doses.

Corey, I hope you aren't taking this as me saying You're wrong. We all only can go by our experiences. I certainly respect you and your knowledge. We all can ONLY go by what we have tried, and Hopefully we can learn from all our TRIAL AND ERRORS.

BEST OF LUCK JARED,

In my opinion, I would definatley Issolate that female.

Hope this helps. Jeremy Stone

I appreciate the input...................

Jared

....according to professional literature included with fluoroquinalone antibiotics (such as Baytril), they are contra-indicated in pregnant animals (cartilage/joint defects in embryos)...

....aminoglycosides rarely cause liver toxicity...much more of a problem is kidney and oto (ear) toxicity...

...in my opinion, Fortaz alone in a pregnant female is the way to go...

Good luck Jared...

Scott

Great Info Scott,

Never Thought of it as it applies to snakes. I'm sure there are many other examples in DOGS, and other animals that have been case studies using Batryl. I wonder if EGG layers would have any effects of BATRYL causing birth defects. I'm sure there is VERY little research as how it effects SNAKES.

From My experience, I have used Baytril on Gravid Boas with NO Such defects. I wonder if Snakes are a little different.

What about Combos such as Amicacin and Fortazz instead?

My ONLY concern with using just 1 antibitic WITHOUT doing a Culture and Sensitivty is you have NO CLUE which AntiBiotic actually is attacking the Bacteria MOST Effectively. You're just GUESSING and HOPING FORTAZZ does the trick.

QUOTING SCOTT STAHL " It is always better to use two antibiotics then 1 when a culture has not been done to make sure you are hitting ALL things".

IF Enroflaxin (Baytril) actually does cause birth defects in SNAKES (which has NOT been the case in my examples) which does not make it FACT, then I wonder if Amikacin as a secondary follow up could be a good way to go.

I have NO IDEA weather or not Amikacin effects Embroys. I do know it is more toxic to the Liver, however, Dr. STAHL LOVES IT!!!!! He says you can't go wrong with the Combo of Fortaz and Amikacin, and everytime he has cured a snake of mine, it has been on BOTH those 2 antibiotics.

MYSELF: I have great results of FORTAZ and Baytrl so I will stick with that. I may think hard about it Should I have a GRAVID Ball Get sick though, and I may consult a Vet such as Scott Stahl. (My Vet)

Thanks for your imput. Very interesting. Jeremy Stone