Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Came across this article, thought that I would get some keepers opinions here.

Best Wishes,

Chris

IN CAPTIVITY

Not only does removing crocodiles from the wild upset the natural population balance, it also means that wild animals must somehow adapt to an artificial environment. Crammed into tiny areas, all their social and behavioural needs go entirely unrecognised. "In their natural environment, crocs live in dark mangrove swamps, in secret places where they can eat their prey bit by bit" says Sue Arnold, from Australians for Animals, "In croc farms, there is no place to hide, they are on view day and night." 6

Justification for overcrowding follows a bizarre logic. Researchers at the Queensland Department of Primary Industries have discovered that if 16 or fewer young stock are penned together then the crocodiles may become territorial, but if 20-40 are penned together then the animals will realise the futility of fighting for space and aggression is minimised. In this way, overcrowding is justified as being for the 'good' of the crocodiles.

In some farms their diet has been changed from the raw meat that they would naturally eat to dry-feed pellet in order to reduce costs. Researchers admit that they still haven't done enough work to ensure the correct nutritional composition of the pellets. Feed and 'fast' times are altered to suit the producer and save labour and costs while still achieving the maximum food-to-weight gain conversion rate.

According to the Australian and New Zealand Federation of Animal Societies Inc. (ANZFAS): "Ways of curbing aggression, an old war-horse of the intensive-farming industry are being investigated as the industry seeks to increase production and expand its market. Young animals are being produced and 'sacrificed' purely for research purposes."7 Even skin colour is manipulated in an attempt to reduce the inevitable aggression brought on by living in stressful and overcrowded conditions. In their natural environment, every crocodile has a value, in the farms 'runts' are 'culled'. Crocodile farms have become little more than laboratories

But most worrying is that there is still no code of welfare for captive crocodiles anywhere in Australia.

In America alligators, like their Australian cousins are taken from the wild and displayed for entertainment before being slaughtered for their meat and skin. By displaying these animals as a tourist attraction before slaughtering them profits can be maximised. "The most common image of a crocodile farm is of numerous animals of different sizes competing with one another for space around or in a shallow pool. Alongside, but protected in some way are crowds of tourists fascinated by the sight of these unique primeval reptiles crammed into inappropriate and unnatural surrounds." 8

In line with intensive farming practises, crocodiles and alligators are kept in indoor confinement in heated facilities to maximise growth and promote all-year-round sales. They are fed on a steady diet of vitamin supplements and antibiotics. In fact, their environment, diet, social groupings and climate are all unnatural. The one natural function that they are expected to fulfil in captivity is breeding, but even then the eggs are taken away from these wonderful nurturing mothers and incubated artificially. Over time, any relationship to the animal in the wild is gradually eroded.
Crocodile Tears

My first response is that this is a biased article that seeks to do nothing but inflame the emotions of animal rights activist types. There are some good points, but also some horrible points.

I generally don't like to see the overcrowding on crocodilian farms--simply because as a keeper myself I feel it is unnatural. But I also now the reasoning behind it. All large scale farming operations be it chickens, pigs, ducks, cows, etc generally have overstocking.

Is it right for the animal? I doubt it. Is it a necessary for man? Perhaps. I don't like it and won't keep my crocs in that manner but I'm not a crocodilian rancher.

>>Came across this article, thought that I would get some keepers opinions here.
>>
>>Best Wishes,
>>
>>Chris
>>
>>
>> IN CAPTIVITY
>>
>>Not only does removing crocodiles from the wild upset the natural population balance, it also means that wild animals must somehow adapt to an artificial environment. Crammed into tiny areas, all their social and behavioural needs go entirely unrecognised. "In their natural environment, crocs live in dark mangrove swamps, in secret places where they can eat their prey bit by bit" says Sue Arnold, from Australians for Animals, "In croc farms, there is no place to hide, they are on view day and night." 6
>>
>>Justification for overcrowding follows a bizarre logic. Researchers at the Queensland Department of Primary Industries have discovered that if 16 or fewer young stock are penned together then the crocodiles may become territorial, but if 20-40 are penned together then the animals will realise the futility of fighting for space and aggression is minimised. In this way, overcrowding is justified as being for the 'good' of the crocodiles.
>>
>>In some farms their diet has been changed from the raw meat that they would naturally eat to dry-feed pellet in order to reduce costs. Researchers admit that they still haven't done enough work to ensure the correct nutritional composition of the pellets. Feed and 'fast' times are altered to suit the producer and save labour and costs while still achieving the maximum food-to-weight gain conversion rate.
>>
>>According to the Australian and New Zealand Federation of Animal Societies Inc. (ANZFAS): "Ways of curbing aggression, an old war-horse of the intensive-farming industry are being investigated as the industry seeks to increase production and expand its market. Young animals are being produced and 'sacrificed' purely for research purposes."7 Even skin colour is manipulated in an attempt to reduce the inevitable aggression brought on by living in stressful and overcrowded conditions. In their natural environment, every crocodile has a value, in the farms 'runts' are 'culled'. Crocodile farms have become little more than laboratories
>>
>>But most worrying is that there is still no code of welfare for captive crocodiles anywhere in Australia.
>>
>>In America alligators, like their Australian cousins are taken from the wild and displayed for entertainment before being slaughtered for their meat and skin. By displaying these animals as a tourist attraction before slaughtering them profits can be maximised. "The most common image of a crocodile farm is of numerous animals of different sizes competing with one another for space around or in a shallow pool. Alongside, but protected in some way are crowds of tourists fascinated by the sight of these unique primeval reptiles crammed into inappropriate and unnatural surrounds." 8
>>
>>In line with intensive farming practises, crocodiles and alligators are kept in indoor confinement in heated facilities to maximise growth and promote all-year-round sales. They are fed on a steady diet of vitamin supplements and antibiotics. In fact, their environment, diet, social groupings and climate are all unnatural. The one natural function that they are expected to fulfil in captivity is breeding, but even then the eggs are taken away from these wonderful nurturing mothers and incubated artificially. Over time, any relationship to the animal in the wild is gradually eroded.
>>Crocodile Tears
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CDieter
'Reason, observation, and experience; the holy trinity of science.'

I have always had some reservations about the various methods in which crocodilians are kept in captivity. The author (Kate Fowler) is correct about certain aspects of an artificial environment curving natural behavior. Personally, I am more concerned with the physical and often crippling effects captivity can have on a croc. Having said that I still have always seen the existance of gator and croc farms as a necesary evil. American Alligators would not have rebounded the way they did if it hadn't been for large scale captive breeding. The author seems to conveniently leave that out.

Crowded conditions have always bothered me. Baby crocodilians can usually be found in pods, but adults are often solitary. Doesn't it also depend greatly on the species? I know American Alligator and Niles are sometimes found in groups, of course, never on the scale of a ranch.

Another thing about the link you posted. Are the examples the author of the article gives for alligator and crocodile farming pretty typical for the industry? The methods of slaughter described on that site were quite different than the ones I have seen. I have always seen them shot.

"A worker, armed with a metal baseball bat bludgeoned the alligator's head, often many times, in an effort to immobilise it. No constraints were used, and when the blows failed to immobilise their targets, the crippled alligators tried in vain to drag themselves out of the striker's range. Without checking for signs of consciousness, workers proceeded to stab the animals' necks with switchblades."

Seems sort of cruel to me.

Jon
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1.1 Womas, 1.0 Australian Olive Python, 1.0 Centralian Carpet Python, 1.1 Cape York Spotted Pythons, 1.0 Australian Water Python, 1.0 Albino Green Burmese, 1.1 Loxocemus bicolor (New World "Pythons" ), 1.2 Peruvian Red-Tail Boas, 2.1 Hog Island Boas, 0.1 Belem Brazilian Red- Tail Boa, 0.0.1 North American Wood Turtle, 0.0.2 European Pond Turtles, 1.0 Leucistic Alligator Snapper, 0.0.1 FL Red Belly, 0.0.1 Concentric Diamondback Terrapin, 0.0.1 Marine Toad, 1.1 Crested Geckos, 1.0 Yellow Ackie, 1.0 Yellow Bearded Dragon

I agree that it seems a bit odd about the methods used to euthanize the animals. After all, if the animals are being destroyed for the purpose of food and the hide, then why would the rancher want to have the animals destroyed in such a manner? It seems to me that they would be loosing some money by stabbing the alligator in the neck with switchblade and beating them in the head with a baseball bat. Why would the "money hungry" ranchers want to loose money by doing that? A rancher is going to try to turn a profit and would look for the quickest and less violent way to destroy the animals so as to minimize money loss, both in the way of efficacy in euthanizing the animals and also in the food and pelt industries.

I do not agree with all of the ways that people do things, especially ranching animals. But one thing that I feel individuals often fail to see is that the animals in question are not wild caught individuals that are being taken for profit. They are farmed, and are raised for the purpose of being destroyed so that the wild populations are not depleted. I really thought that the author was misleading with the statement that the animals were taken from the wild and then raised at the farm. I have never seen a farm that takes animals from the wild to later destroy them. Sure the first few animals at the earliest ranches were wild caught, but I would venture to say that the majority of the individuals in the farms are captive bred.
DEUGAN

yeah I was having the same sorts of problems. I just found that it seemed like somebody was trying to give a bad name to crocodilian keeping again.

Thanks a bunch for your replies!

Chris