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I was wondering if anybody on this forum could give me some sort of explanation as to why texas ratsnakes in general have what is considered to be a nasty disposition... I know that almost every article in every book I read mentions the same thing... Why would this be? Why would one variety of ratsnake be any different then any others? I know this probably seems like a dumb question to some of the elite holier than thou breeders I have encountered on rooms in this forum in the past, but I would like an explanation of some sort if possible...

Thanks,

Eric

It's not a dumb question, especially since it seems to remain a topic of debate. I suspect that "in general" Texas Ratsnakes tend to be a little more feisty than other N. Am. Ratsnakes. That said, individual differences (in all of the above) are probably more pronounced than species differences as far as behavior.

As I stated below...My leucistic Tx. Rat is the only one of my 13 snakes that has bitten me...But he has not done so in years. They can and do calm down quite nicely.

I have also heard that certain "lines" of Tx. Rats are calmer than others. A friend of mine who breeds them seems to have mostly calm ones.

They're great snakes. Duffy

I have caught all the subspecies of common ratsnake in the wild and I have to say Texas Rats (the ssp. with which I am most familiar) are more defensive than the others on average. Texas Rats will often coil up and strike whereas the other rats seem less likely to do so on average.

But I have found Yellow and Black rats are more likely to just turn and bite you while you are handling them.

Of course, I have caught dog tame Texas Rats and I have a bairdii who is extremely defensive! I guess they don't all read the books.

These subspecies differences aren't restricted to ratsnakes, the same is true in common kingsnakes. Eastern and Florida Kings are fairly docile snakes, even as wild caught animals. Striking Eastern Kings are an exception. However, Speckled Kings are very defensive snakes and most adults will coil and strike when threatened. Cal Kings and Desert Kings are docile as adults, but babies are nippy. But again, rules are made to be broken.
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Chris Harrison

>>
>>But I have found Yellow and Black rats are more likely to just turn and bite you while you are handling them.
>>

I have no experience with Texas rats but I can attest for the Yellow and Black rats sneak attacks.
My everglades will either bite when I pick it up or not at all. My corns never bite (except for hatchlings of course) and my yellow rat will be just as calm as ever and out of the blue will just turn around and bite me. He won't rattle his tail or get agitated he just bites. I guess that is his way of saying "ok, I've had enough, put me back"
I have had many black rats over the years and I have had the same thing happen with them.
I could reach in take them out of a tank, handle them for a while with no problem. This could go on for weeks, then out of the blue WHACK, a quick bite and then calm again. Sometimes they would go a couple of days without a bite and sometimes a couple of months but sooner or later they would give ne a surprise.
I keep waiting for the most recent black rat, I caught, to surprise me. He gets a little nervous when handled but hasn't bitten since I caught him. Maybe I will get lucky with him.

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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

I can vouch for that!! LOL Black rats for the majority dont get really agitated and strike repeatedly, like say racers. Most of the time if I catch one out in the field, they either dont bite or will bite a few times. And then they are pretty chilled out after that. Unlike a racer, for the most part will bite until you put it down!! I dont think Texas rats have anything on the racer/coachwhip group!!!! LOL
Brian

>>
>>>>
>>>>But I have found Yellow and Black rats are more likely to just turn and bite you while you are handling them.
>>>>
>>
>>
>>I have no experience with Texas rats but I can attest for the Yellow and Black rats sneak attacks.
>>My everglades will either bite when I pick it up or not at all. My corns never bite (except for hatchlings of course) and my yellow rat will be just as calm as ever and out of the blue will just turn around and bite me. He won't rattle his tail or get agitated he just bites. I guess that is his way of saying "ok, I've had enough, put me back"
>>I have had many black rats over the years and I have had the same thing happen with them.
>>I could reach in take them out of a tank, handle them for a while with no problem. This could go on for weeks, then out of the blue WHACK, a quick bite and then calm again. Sometimes they would go a couple of days without a bite and sometimes a couple of months but sooner or later they would give ne a surprise.
>>I keep waiting for the most recent black rat, I caught, to surprise me. He gets a little nervous when handled but hasn't bitten since I caught him. Maybe I will get lucky with him.
>>
>>
>>
>>-----
>>Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
>>"resistance is futile"
>>Jimmy (draybar)
>>
>> Draybars Snakes
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RATS
1.0 Corn snake "Warpath" (KY locale)
1.0 Black rat snake "Havok" (KY locale)
1.1 Black rat snakes "Reaper and Mystique" (MO locale)
1.0 Albino Black rat snake "Malakai" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Everglades rat snake "Deadpool" (Dwight Good stock)
0.1 Greenish rat snake "Rogue" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Yellow rat snake "Wolverine" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Grey rat snake "Punisher" (White oak phase)(Dwight Good stock)

Good luck and Happy Herping
Brian

>>I can vouch for that!! LOL Black rats for the majority dont get really agitated and strike repeatedly, like say racers. Most of the time if I catch one out in the field, they either dont bite or will bite a few times. And then they are pretty chilled out after that. Unlike a racer, for the most part will bite until you put it down!! I dont think Texas rats have anything on the racer/coachwhip group!!!! LOL
>>Brian
>>
>>>>

I don't even mess with racers. Just don't like them.
As far as I am concerned they are devil spawn....lol
they will strike and bite until they die from exhaustion...lol
I caught a 10 inch racer last year and I swear that thing bit me ten or twelve times before I even got a decent look at it.
It still had pattern and my first thought was baby black rat.....WRONG...lol
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

I can tell you from experience that any wild-caught texas ratsnake will have a habit of rapid striking along with the vibrating tail. The vibrating tail frightens alot of people especially when the snake is in their garage on a metal shelf(it does sound like a rattle snake) without knowing what your looking for until you find it.
Seems that the bigger ones (atleast to me) are much calmer to handle. Some taming down quite easily by the time I relocate them LoL!
I've never dealt with a captive bred texas ratsnake, so someone on this forum who has one would know more than I on that.

- S.Peters

I think the explanation has more to do with people than with snakes. People like to work from categories, and don't necessarily need a study done at Harvard to convince them of something. When people hear something that sounds convincing, they'll repeat it. It makes them feel like they've got a fact on their hands, and no matter how many times they hear examples to the contrary, they remember the rule because it's easier. To say "Texas rat = aggressive" is much easier than to say "Some Texas rats are aggressive, some aren't, and some of the aggressive ones calm down as they get bigger, and other rat snakes that don't have bad reputations very often exhibit the exact same behavior." But people will stick with the former even though the latter answer is much closer to reality.

If you'll notice, people love to say Texas rats are mean, but whenever someone says that, right afterwards people tell how their personal experience differs. But immediately after that they'll say something like, "These are just exceptions, though." It's like they know the rule is meaningless, they just like rules. IMO people just like having easy memorized responses in their heads.

are also prone to bite as well. i have a snapshot of a cb just emerging from his egg, sees me and immediately started threatening me w/ mouth gaping, tongue draping, rattling and striking. lol! he was ready for action, no questions asked. they're all pretty much like that but will calm down some once they attain some size and experience. overall though, i'd have to say their nasty rep has been earned.

Very well put. I agree with you 100%.

I have never been bit by any of my cb Texans but I have a cb Yellow that goes crazy when he smells food and will nail my hand when I try to feed him using my short forceps. (I have learned not to use them with him. LOL) Texas Rat Snakes are just like any of the other four subspecies of obsoleti, they are wonderful.

I have many captive born texas rats and MOST of them have bitten me. But I like to view them as individuals. For example. I have a double het hybino who is very unpredictable. At times I have let my 2 year old nephew hold him, then then other times he will rattle and gape the entire time I'm in the room. I have a lavender that will bite guaranteed.And others even wild caught babies and adults who have never even gaped at me. I find them very individualistic (if thats a word) But all the more reasonto like them, there attitudes tend to give them character.(IMHO)

Daniel Jarvis

MOTLEY