Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello again,
Since my last question went unanswered or maybe out of most people's league, I have another. Is anyone out here working with the pits from deep south america (deppi and jani excluded) or the islands off California. I am very interested in the non man made stuff.

Thanx
Smooth-E

Well I would guess you are aware that Lineaticollis are available, though only one of the forms. From what I understand the island Gophers do not exist in collections? If I am not mistaken John Ginter had one of them, but only one....with no mate. He was attempting to breed it to it's closest mainland relation and get as close as possible to producing similar...and I am sure.......properly identified versions resembling the island type. I have not seen him post on here in a long time. Nor have I heard any mention of that project since. It was briefly talked about on this forum so I guess it is somewhere in the archives? A local herper who worked for a zoo here in TX had a pair of Gibsoni, and he got slugs from them for 2 or 3 years and then they both perished. Too bad............but that's just how it goes sometimes. As far as your other post.......it seems to me there's an occasional person or two who appears to mean well that gets all wound up over starting some serious work concerning studies on various Pituophis. It usually fizzles out in a year and the person is no where to be found or seems to have lost interest in Pits alltogether. The only exception is the LA Pines and that seems to be more of a preservation in captivity type thing. I also wonder why Black Pines have so little interest when it seems they are within the top 5 rarest snakes in the wild in North America? When is the last time you heard of someone catching one? I guess the bottom line is some of these Pits spend so much underground in gopher burrows and what not it is practically impossible to study them. Or to even properly imitate thier natural surroundings in captivity. Imagine an ant farm type set up with a long tunnel for some sort of Pit? I think it would be cool to see them subdue thier prey by squashing it against the wall instead of typical constriction. I also wonder how often the snake in that set up would comne to the surface? And if water was poured on the surface and actually reached the lower tunnel if the snake would even come out to a water bowl? Know what I mean? From what I have heard........is many specimens of LA Pines were found by people not interested in them on private property and whatnot.....I guess land developers or farmers? Hope I didn't bore you or crack you up, LOL. It's just you hear about people looking for Bulls and some Gophers road cruising.......but Pines seem to be much harder to come by. I recently found some info on island gophers on the European site....http://www.pinesnake.de/english/stammseite.html I have been meaning to write this guy, I really enjoyed taking a look at it. Check it out Tom Stevens

Thank you for the reply. I new of Mr. Ginter's work with his gopher and I think age got the best of it. I wish more people worked with them. I have a trio of black pines I am working with along with a locality catenifer group that comes from a fairly isolated valley. I heard of some misfortune with a group of la. pines year before last and I hope the gentleman can recover and continue his work. I have several sticks of 2" clear pvc type pipe that I placed in my pits cage. It is semi buried in the substraight and they do put the hurt on a rodent if he gets to curious. You have gave me an idea, may be something to think about, building some sort of multi level cage with the clear pipe and maybe a glass front pocket areas every so often to observe more of their undergound life.
Great talking to ya
Smooth-E

Pituophis are by far my fave snakes. Whenever I talk to people who have kept, bred, and done research both in the field and in the snake room all seem to show thier frustration and confusion over why these snakes are not more popular and more respected. What baffles me is the eye popping morphs are in abundance and so much more reasonably priced than many other snakes and still many people will chose other types of snakes???? I am the kind of snake keeper that HATES to get bit, and so many people I speak with assume Pits are all monsters, strikers and biters. I have one gopher that is very intimidating, but she is also one of my faves in a collection of over 50 snakes. She is a great display animal and produces gorgeous babies. I was pleased when last year at a reptile show I asked a few people if they liked Gophers, they all said not really. I showed them my Sonoran Morphs and let them hold them. Needless to say I sold out. A sale is always good but when you turn a Corn or King person on too Pits you feel a great feeling of achievement in a sense. I have heard the same about Beauty snakes and also Spilotes.... I told a friend I feared them for thier reps of being aggressive. He opened a deli cup and put a Tiger Rat in my hand and I did not get bit, and practically fell in love! I am a big fan of all colubrids, but sometimes the personality of the less popular snakes makes them all that much more fun to keep. If you construct a crazy cage with underground hideouts and burrows please post pics. I am very curious to know how much time a captive Pit would spend in the lower levels. Tom Stevens

Great things you said bro! I always did hear about how aggressive pits were and all that, but man..they have been the absolute best pet snakes I have ever owned. I have only been bit by a pit once. All my pits, except for one, are calm and enjoy being handled. I hold them for hours while I am chilling on the couch watching my favorite shows.

Perhaps those who have seen or had a lot of pits that were hissy, etc, were keeping them on temps too high?

Take care!

Billy

" Manowar, Manowar...living on the road..When we're in town, speakers explode"
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Genesis 1:1

That's a very valid point Billy. I truly feel many people who keep snakes keep them way too warm. The common advice of having a hot spot and a cool side seems to amount too 85 on one side and 80 on the other. When I have a gradient of over 10 degrees I am happy but still hoping for an even more dramatic difference. This is another reason why I prefer large cages. That is another thing I really like about Pituophis fans, many of us attempt to give our animals a lot more space than other colubrid keepers offer their snakes. I also think that Pits do just fine with temps near room temp. I do want a hot spot for gravid females, but if they poop normal and seem healthy at lower temps I do not go overboard on the heat. My big Southern Pine is 98% baby, very rarely does she do the Pit thang when then get all crazy. If I had more room, I would definitely keep more Pits but after all I get to enjoy a dozen or two babies every season, so I can't complain. ttyl Tom Stevens
and yes Hail the true Kings of Metal MANOWAR!!!!!!!

While I have stopped working with Pituophis spp., for the most part, I still maintain contact with some researchers who do work with them.
While I am aware of only a single pair if P. c insulanus being maintained in captivity, by a researcher, I seriously doubt any will make it into the private sector, at least here in the US.
I do know of one USC researcher who has recently obtained collection permits for P. l lineaticollis and P. l gibsoni, though I am certain none will be made available to the private sector.
I have to agree with Tom, P. m lodingi are quite rare and make very interesting captives, not to mention, application has already been made to the USF&W to garner Federal protection for the species.

Best regards,

Jeff
Best regards,

Jeff
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Jeff Snodgres
University of Arkansas
snodgresjeffreys@uams.edu
501.603.1947

Tom,

Just an FYI:

A friend of mine encountered a wild P. m lodingi about two weeks ago in Mississippi..

Best regards,

Jeff
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Jeff Snodgres
University of Arkansas
snodgresjeffreys@uams.edu
501.603.1947

I enjoyed reading all your inputs. I have been thinking about the multi level cage for several days now since you put the bug in my head hahaha If I do make one up I will post pics and post how the pits react to it. On another note I have a female snow bull (white bull/whatever) she is a man made critter almost no patt. rich white with pink eyes and tongue. I now she is the result of several morphs put together. I have a huge w/c bull from Oklahoma I am breeding her to. My question is what will babies be het for? Will they be a dominate het for one type of morph? Will some be het for one thing while others are het for something else? I have worked with multi het morphs from the same lines and I worked with amels, hypos too but those groups have a known outcome.
What can I expect???
Thanx
Smooth-E

If what you have is a Snow or Albino Whitesided . You should get all normals double het for Albino and Whitesided . If you breed the offspring back togather you could get Albinos , Albino Whitesided , Whitesided and of corse normals .

Jason