Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi All,

Has anyone has this problem.

I use the Van-Ness CP2 pan, this is a medium size cat liter pan and I run 1.3 in each. What I have found is the male rat will chew a hole about the size of a quater and just hange their heads out. I have a total of 144 pans and this only happens in about 5 to 10 of them and they never get out. I tape over the holes a couple of times before just using a new pan. This is getting costly so I'm looking for some ideals.

Back ground info:
My rat barn has AC and I keep the temp at 78º with fans moving the air around. They always have clean fresh water available and I feed Harlan 2018 rodent chow and use Harlan Lab grade shreaded Aspen for bedding. I also change the beeding twice a week to keep the smell down and I like the rats to be in a clean enviroment.

I wish I knew what to tell ya, but I don't.

I had a rack set up (not as nice as yours) and the same thing happend. I tried everything, even replacing the rats I saw doing it. Nothen I did helped so I gave up the rack and built some wire cages.

I have heard that the concrete mixxing tubs are harder for them to chew out of. But I had already built the new cages before so I have not tried it.

May-be you could build a big wire cage around the rack. That way you can still use the rack, and if a rat does get out it wont go far.

Just an idea,
good luck

Have a good day!

hmmmm, Rats chew, thats what they do. Even wild ones that have the great outside, they chew. Just imagine what 4 rats in a tiny little cage will do, I bet they will chew. Now just wait until the day, your water system doesn't work right or you are gone and they run out of food, they will all chew out.

Your task as a cage builder is to not allow them the ability to chew. That is, find tubs with no corners or edges they can get a start on. Or if the plastic is so soft they can start on a flat surface.

Also from your pics you made another big mistake. The plastic tubing is a disaster waiting to happen. With rodents, they will sooner or later get out. That is unless you get rid of them. When they get out, they will eat that black tubing and they will burrow in that insulation. You should have taken PVC piping all the way to the cage.

I get the feeling your gotta say, I never miss feeding or watering. Well that is so far, how long are you going to do this? Are you going to be tied to your rats twice a week for a year? how about ten years? You need to design a system that others can do, and consider others make mistakes. Good luck, FR

I get the feeling that Mr. FR was so busy looking for things to complain about and criticise that he really didn't have time to think through what he was saying.

I have not used the litter pans like you have but I have looked at them and have seen that they have no edges or inside corners to chew on. I have been using rubbermaid tubs for many years as have many other breeders and have never had an animal chew it's way out. The only thing I can think of is that there must be enough space above the pan for the rat to get started on the top edge.

I have used auto water systems like yours for about 10 years with the 1/4" plastic tube. You need to not let it lay on top of the wire screen but other than that you won't have any problem with the tubing. Every once in a while I'll have a valve get stuck and drip so you need to pay attention to that.
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Wade's Weptiles & Wodents

I've had this problem with the kitty litter tubs as well, and that's why I switched my whole system to mortar mixing tubs.
I'd bet that the gap between the kitty litter tub and the area which it slides into the rack is a little too wide, thus giving them just enough space to chew.
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Greg Holland
GM HERPS
www.gmherps.com
gmherps@sbcglobal.net

I have been using the Cat litter pans for years and never had a problem. I built one out of mortar tubs and let to much play and they chewed. Seems like they have to much room to flex the wire and chew the tubs. Todd

If they are chewing holes along the rim of the pan, then as others have said, the gap between the top of the pan and the screen is too much thus allowing them room enough to get their teeth on it. If it's the same pans doing this each time, it's possible the wood frame has warped a bit in that area and some modifications will be needed to close those gaps. If you post a close-up pic of the problem, I'm sure we could brainstorm some good fixer ideas.

Also, do you really run 1.3 rats in the medium litter pan?? Is this the pan that measures approximately 12x16x4? If so, I can't see how they would produce very well in there.......doesn't seem like much moving around room........but I'm actually interested to know how they do. Good production???

Thanks,
Brian

If they are chewing holes along the rim of the pan, then as others have said, the gap between the top of the pan and the screen is too much thus allowing them room enough to get their teeth on it. If it's the same pans doing this each time, it's possible the wood frame has warped a bit in that area and some modifications will be needed to close those gaps. If you post a close-up pic of the problem, I'm sure we could brainstorm some good fixer ideas.

Also, do you really run 1.3 rats in the medium litter pan?? Is this the pan that measures approximately 12x16x4? If so, I can't see how they would produce very well in there.......doesn't seem like much moving around room........but I'm actually interested to know how they do. Good production???

Thanks,
Brian

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Hi Brian,

After inspecting the cage some the slide rails have warped over time and allowed to much clearance. I'm working on a fix for that now.

The Van-Ness pan I use measures 15" x 18" x 5" and I get a good 2 to 3 liters every month from each pan. That Harlan feed is great my production has also most double since I started using it.

Thanks for the help.

I think your tubs are too small. I'm not sure this is the cause of the chewing, rats chew by instinct. They may be trying to escape the crowding. I'll post some cage space guidelines below. It calls for 70sq" of floor space and 7" of height for each 500 gr. adult. You are around 67sq", which is pretty close, until you add all those babies. Mom or Dad may just be trying to get out of the house!

Rather than re-engineer every thing, maybe you could just rotate some the males. I think that Sonya also removes some of the pinks. This is a good way to lessen density and improve pup growth as long as you have a use for the pinks. Even if you don't have a use for the pinks, this is a good way to raise replacement breeders.

DeMak
Cage Space Guidelines - The University of Minnesot

>>I think your tubs are too small.

I totally agree with this. I didn't mention it before as I sorta spoil mine for cage space and so am out of touch with how close you can space them. My 1.3 groups have an 18X18X24 cage, with a wheel.

>>Rather than re-engineer every thing, maybe you could just rotate some the males. I think that Sonya also removes some of the pinks.

Yes, I do often cull litters down. I can always use the pinks and so there is no waste. I almost never have the full litter at weaning. Even if you can't always use the pinks the culling will totally increase your growth rates. I can have two week olds as big as many people's weanlings.
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Sonya

Haven't we warned you about tampering with the structure of a chaotic system?
Mrs. Neutron

You already know there is enough space for them to chew. I have a rack with similar tubs also and have only had one tub to date been chewed on bad enough to be replaced. My rack is angle iron and screening but the tubs are plastic. Overcrowding is a factor but so is temp, food, and water. Sometimes they just get bored. I get those toilet paper & paper towel tubes and other cardboard tubes and cut them up to appropriate sizes. This allows for them to "play" or hide and then they chew them all up. They never eat them but love to make a good sized pile out of them. Maybe their teeth keep growing and they need to "file" them down some. I have more problems with mice than I do with rats.

Hope this helps
Scott