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I'm having trouble keeping 2 out of my 4 baby 04' cali kings.

They are problem feeders. 1 is a 0.1 albino striper, and the other is a 0.1 normal striper. I got them from two different people, and both people said the snakes ate whenever food was offered.

I got the albino in early April, forgot to write down the date, but her first meal with me was on the 10th of April. From there, she ate a couple times. But about a month ago, she slowed down on her feeding, seemed she only wanted moving prey(which, mice-wise, I cannot provide). She took a pinky from my hand on the 26th of May. I know it hasn't been too long since her last meal, but I prefer for my cali kings to eat atleast once a week, while some of mine will eat a few times a week. A couple days ago I offered her a small garter snake, which she attacked as soon as it came her way. But she wouldn't eat it, and she wouldn't take it any other times I offered it either.

With the normal striper, I got her on May 3rd. She is a very nice looking striper, and will probably be a "wide stripe" california king as an adult, if she makes it to adulthood. She ate 2 meals since I got her, a pinky mouse on May 6th, and 1 on the 11th, and that's it.

Both snakes are about 15" long, live in 20 quart rubbermaid containers with half an inch of aspen bedding, and a sheet of newspaper to hide under. They are offered water once a week, which they drink for minutes at a time. Their enclosures are at 75-85 degrees F. Today they are around 83 degrees.

What am I doing wrong? I think it might be pretty bad when you have ringneck snakes on better feeding schedules than kings lol.

Mike

Here is a pic of the normal striper, quite a looker huh?

Michael's Place

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Mike,
It is best to have a thermal gradient in the snake's enclosure. If you keep one side around 85 to 90 degrees and the other side room temp (around 72 degrees) the snake will be able to move to the desired temperature to digest prey. If it is 83 degrees in the entire enclosure it may not eat until it cools a little (like feeding at night in the wild). Then it will digest its meal in the warmth of the day. We, as hobbyist, try to emulate the "wild" and tend to stick with what works or what has been proven by others' experiences........Thus...heating pads, flexwatt or other heat sources are used for a portion of their enclosure......
Try feeding the snakes under cover and all those other methods I emailed you a while back......
BTW.....Lampropeltis have a the heartiest of all appetites......
John Lassiter

John,

A couple others also suggested I have 1 warm and 1 cold side in the enclosure. But that is quite impossible to do at the moment. If I use a heatpad, or heat tape, that side where I use that is going to sky-rocket into the 90s and 100s easily. It's just too warm in my snake room to have a cold area. I recently got 2 fans set up in there, but it's still warm. Not much I can do about it. I'll be trying to feed both snakes later on tonight... once it cools down.

And I know that kings have good appeitites, I have an 04 male I got back in December, eats every 3-4 days, eats 4 large pinkies, or 3 large pinkies and a hopper. That boy can eat. I got him at 12" long, he sheds once a month, and he is now about 23". He's the only one out of my cali kings that will eat whenever I offer him food.

Mike

Michael's Place

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Thus...heating pads, flexwatt or other heat sources are used for a portion of their enclosure......

John,

That would be difficult to do, like I said in my other reply, the enclosures are too small, and it is already too warm in the snake room to begin with.

The enclosures are only 13" long X 8.5" wide X 9" high.

I have added water bowls into all Cali king enclosures as of last night, and I'm hoping the snakes start eating like champs soon.

Mike
Michael's Place

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Michael's Place has updated, better caresheets
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I would feed them live.

And your regular striped cal king will not "turn" into a wide striper. As an adult it will look just like it does now only bigger. Sometimes the black may turn to a brown and the white may turn a little yellow, but the pattern will not change.

Kerby...

Thanks for clearing that up, something I didn't know. I've heard a couple people say their kings developed a wide stripe.

I would feed live as well.... if I had access to live mice. But I don't. No pet stores around stock live pinky mice, and as soon as a mouse gives birth at the stores the pinkies get frozen. I have yet to locate any mouse breeders as well.

Mike
Michael's Place

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Michael's Place has updated, better caresheets
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Oh yeah.....The pattern will not widen on the striped king....It will look the same from birth to death (the pattern)...

John Lassiter
This is a widestriped baby calking thanks to Don Shores.....

Both of my female Wide Stripers that I got from Don Shores are gravid.

The male is a killer, the females aren't as wide, but if they throw really Wide Stripe babies then I will be happy.

Kerby...

Cool....
I won't breed my male until next year. I have a striped female het for albino, but not a widestripe female. I wonder if breeding a widestriped male to a normal striped female will throw some widestripes???? I know it is kinda going backwards, but I have yet to see a nice female widestripe....the males are nicer looking as we have stated before. If you get a couple of nice females...Keep one for yourself and contact me for the other.....LOL (seriously)
Keep me posted Kerby...
Here is a more recent pic of my male from Shores. Is yours black or brown? This one was dark as a hatchling but lightened up and the white got cleaner so that was good.....
John Lassiter

why only offer water once a week? most snakes love water.

You are right Jetzen...Some do and some don't, but if hobbyist learn to get some feeding more will make it. I am glad I have gotten many of my Mexicana feeding that were stubborn as hatchlings. Some were so nice it would have been ignorant to just give up on them.....
The best method to date for me is to hibernate neonates for about 6 weeks then warm them up and try again....Forcefeeding is a thing of the past for me.....Lizard scenting and braining comes in a close second and third as far as success goes.
Great looking snakes as usual Jetzen...can't wait until you start producing some to share with some of us.....
John Lassiter

This is my only holdback from 2004. She refused all my coaxing to get her feeding until I cooled her for 6 weeks. Now she downs two pinks at a time twice a week.....Glad I did not give up......

And i'm very curious about that snake what exactly is it's background? I don't recall seeing that one b/4

She is the result from pairing my yellow headed Evan Stahl male leonis I got from David Weymouth (Mtkings, Wasatch Reptiles) last year and a similar female I got from Sunbaked Serpents.
The male has some split, sunburst, washed out or keyholed saddles, but this female has then nearly all the way down. I have a project in mind that will hopefully (eventually) produce some orange leopard leonis thayeri. You have seen some of Dan Vermilya's Leopard leonis, right? They are awesome in my opinion.....
John Lassiter
Here is another shot of her when she was a hatchling...

i never seen a thayeri or any other mexicana sub that i didn't like, i can see why they are getting more and more popular all the time, leopards? i'm gonna check out his web site, thanks for the info.

Dan doesn't have a website anymore, but you can view them on the Mexicana forum......
And yes...they are all nice in my opinion.....
John Lassiter

I agree with the above, a temp gradient is the best. With that said, your temps should not be a problem with a small kingsnake.

There is one clue to your problem. You said, "drinking for minutes at a time" captive snakes should not have to drink for minutes at a time. Your snakes(these two) are most likely dehydrated. Offer them a wet box, you know, a little tub or box of moist potting soil or spaghnum moss and offer clean water all the time.

I can only guess your "dry" conditions effect the new ones because they are thinner and have less mass. Once they bulk up, the symtoms will disappear, but the problem will still exsist. You may want to think about correcting the dehydration problem. Good luck FR

Hi Mike,

No healthy king should have to drink for minutes at a time. A couple of pulls off of the bowl and it should be good to go. To me, such drinking behavior would be an indication that something isn't right with the snake. I may have mis-read your post, but if you are only offering them water once a week, then that is totally insufficient and they are likely dehydrated. They should have clean water available at all times. If you meant that you change their water weekly, then that is a little better, as long as you check to make sure that they don't [bleep]e in it. Definately step up the changing schedule whenever contamination is witnessed.

All of the dietary advice in the world won't make a difference if the snake is chronically dehydrated. Any established, juvenile getula should hammer any small rodent left in its cage - live, dead or whatever. However, a dehydrated one will go into conservation mode and likely won't eat due to stress. Good luck.

Will

Hey Will,

I have put waterbowls into all of the cali kings' enclosures that didn't have one already.

Tonight is feeding night, I bet that GA eastern king of yours, er, mine, will chow down like a champ as always.

Mike
Michael's Place

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Michael's Place has updated, better caresheets
KingPin Reptiles Inc.
Helmz777@aol.com
www.freewebs.com/mikesnake

The key is to limit the dehydration, not just add water. Even if yours appear to be doing well, they are still effected by dehydration. Good luck FR