Reptile & Amphibian Forums

A good friend of mine has the money and room for an 8x8x8 foot walk in, hexagonal, arboreal, enclosure. I will be building it for him, out of Item aluminum extrusion (much like the enclosures from “Cages By Design”) with a 6 foot tree in the middle.
The BIG QUESTION is he would like to keep an Irian Jaya, a Jungle Carpet, a Green tree Python, a Diamond Carpet, and a Bredls Python, ALL in the same enclosure! WOW!!! Assuming all are the same size, and feed separately, can this be done? He is putting a few grand into the enclosure and more into the snakes so I would feel bad if I told him this was a good idea if it wasn’t.
I have tried to talk him into an attractive alternative with separations but he wants to do it if it can be done. Believe it or not he has a Great room that is about 50’x50’ that this thing won’t overpower. Must be nice…

Doesn't sound like a great idea. You can keep multiple snakes in the same enclosure, but it is difficult. It is hard enough when they are the same species, let alone 6 or so.

I would also discourage this because this list of snakes includes species and subspecies from atleast 6 different macro habitats (Arid Interior of Australia, Southern Coast, Northern Coast, Northern Rainforest-as distinguished from mcdowelli habitat-, Papuan Rainforest, Papuan Savannah)

At the very least the bredl, chondros, and diamonds are from such different habitats that it may be hard to get them to survive in the same system, let alone thrive. You may (and again not encouraging this) be able to pull off Jungles and Irians, or Irians and Jungles, or maybe even chondros and jungles.

A better idea (to me) would be to get one glorious animal to display in the cage, if you are absolutely dedicated to multiple animals I would try a sexed pair or pair of females from one of the species mentioned.
Good Luck

8x8x8 Foot.

Irian Jaya
Jungle Carpet
Green tree Python
Diamond Carpet
Bredls Python

Can't do it.

TEMPERATURES:
All have differing temp requirements (albeit some are very similar). Even if you manage to get the temp just right for each animal in a different area, all that animal is going to do is stay in the same place, becasue other areas will be too hot for it's liking and others too cold.

HUMIDITY:
This is a VERY important factor for Green Tree Pythons. They need a very high humidity time-frame twice every 24 hours, and time to dry out each 24 hours as well. This will be EXTREMELY difficult to achieve in such a large enclosure. It is hard enough to get a 3x3' cube to have the right humidity.

CLASHING:

The green tree python is somewhat temperamental. It is very fragile, has very thin skin, cannot take being handled too often and many have poor temperaments (yes, i know, some are okay). It stresses out if it is put in an enclosure with another female GTP, let alone 4 other python, 3 of which, if not all, will get bigger than it. Also, GTP's are prone to have poor kidneys. This means that they are more prone to disease than other pythons. When a GTP defecates, it should be removed immediately as of the risk of disease.

The size difference in these snakes is a concern. The smaller snakes will stress over having larger snakes around, and the larger ones will stress because they feel threatened.

Another thing to note is that some snakes will be cannibalistic. Some species are more so than others... but if a fully grown diamond or jungle is hungry... and the bredlis smells like a rat after feeding... not good.

CLEANING

An enclosure that size, with that many different animals will be extremely hard to clean. It would be like a full time job. Poor cleaning leads to sick animals, and, in a group of 5, a vet trip and meds is quite costly.

HUSBANDRY

How is your friend going to know which snakes feed? When they have defecated? Which sheds belowg to which? Which is stressed? Which is sick? Which has regurgitated it's meal because it feels so insecure about being forced to live with so many other snakes? Not only this... it would be like walking an 8 foot gauntlet to get in the enclosure, walk around to pick up 4 or 5 defecations, and clean the area... especially with a stressed out 5 foot angry green tree python (like i said, not all are angry, but i know i certainly would be if forced to live with 4 other bigger, thicker, more resiliant pythons). Record keeping would be impossible.

Snakes are solitary creatures. They prefer to be left on their own, where they do not have to stress a lot, often leading to death if not corrected.

Tell your friend that it's not a good idea.
And show him this email. Believe me, it would be a waste of money for the enclosure. And a waste of life.

Please talk him round.
Aaron.

Thanks! That’s just what I needed to talk him out of the original project. He thought my reluctance was because I didn’t want to build such a large cage. I have sent him your answers (backups to my own) and he’s not happy but at least he doesn’t want the nightmare you describe. I have been designing him a large enclosure with separations that he can SLOWLY fill as he becomes more knowledgeable about the individual snakes needs.
He got the original idea from the fact that I have a juvenile Jungle and an Irian Jaya together. BIG difference from the project he wanted!
Thanks again for your help and detailed answers. I’m sure if I had told him no, on my own, he would have just had someone else build his death trap!

I beleive that most snake enthusiasts would argue that YOU shouldn't even be keeping your JCP and IJ together in the same enclosure. Furthermore, if you had taken the time to read any of the numerous posts placed in this forum regarding the subject of maintaining multiple snakes in a single enclosure you wouldn't have had to ask that question in the first place.
Just because someone has the money and resources to do something does not mean that it should be done. If your friend is so rich than he shouldn't mind buying separate enclosures for all the snakes he wishes to keep. He can get a very impressive rack system to display each individual animal while still maintaining their individual habitat requirements. While costly, it would provide the balance of both a practical and impressive display.
Being that you're the one supplying this guy with information and advice, and presumably building the cage for him, you should do a lot more research on the requirements of what he needs and not just what he wants. Otherwise you're just setting him up for an expensive lesson in failure.

WOW!
You assume a lot! I am NOT the only person he knows with snakes. Unfortunately HIS bad influences are people who proclaim to know it all and are loud and opinionated! I had sent him to this site and he came back to me not quite convinced, so I played the devil’s advocate and posted the question to illicit the answers and responses that I got.

Some times people come to their senses faster when someone neutral tells them (INSTEAD OF HITTING THEM WITH A HAMMER). If I had told him that he was a rich idiot, he probably would be (unknowingly) abusing his snakes in the near future. My purpose is to help create a responsible Herp lover. He now likes your site and has an interest in learning more before he invests in the snakes.

REMEMBER ALL OF US WERE BEGINNERS AT ONE TIME! It’s the little corn that you bye at PETCO that spurs the interest in learning more. Unless you have a knowledgeable collector or breeder near by to help, you can make mistakes threw ignorance (NOT stupid) assumptions. Not ALL of us were born with this knowledge. If everyone on this board knew everything about every snake then what would be the purpose. We learn form each others experiences. Taking offence for some ones misguided idea (and not their actions) is pretty silly.

Well, I have at least won the battle with the *&%$# that were telling him that I was to cautious. I also retained his interest and friendship.

As fare as my TEMPORARY set up with my IJ and my JCP, IT WAS TEMPORY!!! They were under a year old and, by the way, thrived together. They both are very healthily with no problems eating (RAT fuzzies) and they shed beautifully.

In conclusion: I am sorry for a fending some people with my initial question…but give me a break it’s not like I *&%$ the Queen! It was just a question… Now that he is reading posts on this site, I hope he doesn’t feel too embarrassed to post his own questions.

-Thanks again

It is my belief that, if done properly, it might, and i emphasize, might, be possible to keep two snakes with similar requirements and temperaments together. I agree, snakes don't live together in the wild. But, then again, they don't have a perfect temperature gradient, humidity, and constant food supply. Yet, we give them these things. Perhaps keeping snakes together isn't a bad thing, provided they are healthy, both physically and emotionally. The fact is, we don't really know. Yes, there are the health issues. Yes, there are the stress issues. These might be able to be overcome. We just don't know. And no scientific studies are going to tell us what the animal is thinking. So perhaps we should think twice before shooting down somebody just because they are willing to go into 'unknown' and somewhat 'forbidden' territory. Quite simply, we are scared of what we don't know. It's human nature. So don't shoot down the little guy just because he's willing to 'go there'. Oh, and, don't shoot the messenger, just expressing my unconcluded opinion, not forcing it upon anybody, not intending to hurt anyone.

Money cant by brains. This would be a terrible idea.

Here's a better idea:

Build him a column of enclosures where each is 4 feet long x 3 feet deep by 4 feet tall, put them up on 2 foot tall stands (cabinet space underneath), and build them in an octagon (22.5 degrees angles on the sides), facing outward. It would make a seriously impressive display, he could keep all 8 species without unnecessarily stressing them or ignoring their husbandry requirements, and it wouldn't take up much more space than the original plan.

A 4' x 2'-3' x 4' cage would me more than adequate for all of those species and downright spacous for some of them, they could be decorated really well and make an excellent display in his 50'x50' room.

Then he'll just need to hire someone fuill time to maintain them.

ryanm

Ryanm,

Do you know this guy? Just kidding, he proposed about the same thing but taller. I talked him out of having the interior column 8ft! I told him that it’s not that easy to heat an elevator shaft. It would be hard to have a cool side and a warm side also.
So….New plans. Still 8 sides, divided into 4 cages, 4’ interior height, 2 1/2’ pedestal on the bottom, 1 1/2’ for a top hood. He’s semi retired so he can take care of them (with guidance).

My question to you all is witch 4 should he go with. I’m thinking of telling him to drop the Diamond or maybe the green tree. What would you all put in them?

If it were me, I would probably put JCPs in all of them. Oh well…