Reptile & Amphibian Forums

any rights/priviliges that we have in this country to own our animals is pretty much shot. You can see it happening state by state. We all know the problem. The bigger problem is that there aren't enough of us to stand up and fix it. All of us talk, but yet only 20% of us walk. The rest sit back and chat on the forums.

States are not willing to implement a husbandry/training course for handling our animals because they dont want us to have them anyways. Some of us dont even want to see permit systems in place, they think that whatever people want to own they should be able to do so without consequence. We can't even get our own fellow hobbyists to agree on a reasonable proposal, to take to the states. Each state is falling more and more.

I dont see why any of us continue to sit in here and talk about it anymore. Seriously, there is nothing that a single one of us is going to be able to do in order to save our rights/privileges to keep our animals. The states simply dont care.

As Jim Harrison pointed out below, Ohio has had 2 snake bite deaths recently. He is correct that most likely my state will be next on the S**t list. I of course will be doing everything that I can, but I doubt very seriously that I get much help. Any help that I and anyone else does get, will still not be enough to stop the inevitable. The state could care less about private citizens feelings on this subject.

As long as these animals are made available to the public, we will have morons that will screw up and make it harder on everyone.

Sorry for the rant, just getting irritated reading about all these new laws/regs. It's just simply getting ridiculous.

chris

Jim and Kirsten said it well that when you get awaken at 3am to respond to a venomous snake/snake bite call, you tend to form opinions based on these types of experiences (I have had more than my share of 2am wake up calls). We can primarily blame the many irresponsible owners out there; just look at the forums, classifieds, heck, the press, etc. they fester with irresponsible and incapable people who have no business keeping venomous herps. Go to the trade shows where just about anyone can go to a table and purchase a cute little black mamba in a flimsy little deli cup; ludicrous. Yes, there are also many extremely intelligent, professional and expert private venomous herp owners and I would strongly propose a permit system to allow these folks to continue to do what they do (and do it responsibly). Unfortunately, most state DNR's don't have the resources to manage a permit system so I honestly dont' know how we protect the responsible owners. Our own apathy in not getting involved and coming together as a herp community has not helped our case either. I am very fortunate in that I have a wildlife operation that falls under a city government that allows me to work with many venomous herps; that wouldn't be possible as a private individual. Looks like a lot of us are going to have to move to Texas!

Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center
Lake Forest, IL

>>any rights/priviliges that we have in this country to own our animals is pretty much shot. You can see it happening state by state. We all know the problem. The bigger problem is that there aren't enough of us to stand up and fix it. All of us talk, but yet only 20% of us walk. The rest sit back and chat on the forums.
>>
>>States are not willing to implement a husbandry/training course for handling our animals because they dont want us to have them anyways. Some of us dont even want to see permit systems in place, they think that whatever people want to own they should be able to do so without consequence. We can't even get our own fellow hobbyists to agree on a reasonable proposal, to take to the states. Each state is falling more and more.
>>
>>I dont see why any of us continue to sit in here and talk about it anymore. Seriously, there is nothing that a single one of us is going to be able to do in order to save our rights/privileges to keep our animals. The states simply dont care.
>>
>>As Jim Harrison pointed out below, Ohio has had 2 snake bite deaths recently. He is correct that most likely my state will be next on the S**t list. I of course will be doing everything that I can, but I doubt very seriously that I get much help. Any help that I and anyone else does get, will still not be enough to stop the inevitable. The state could care less about private citizens feelings on this subject.
>>
>>As long as these animals are made available to the public, we will have morons that will screw up and make it harder on everyone.
>>
>>Sorry for the rant, just getting irritated reading about all these new laws/regs. It's just simply getting ridiculous.
>>
>>chris
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

I am certainly not disagreeing with you, but I still think it rather sucks. The problem with that is, that before you know it, Texas will be having a law banning them also. I most likely wont get my opportunities here in Ohio now as I have been speaking to you about. It's all due to ignorance and morons that invade our precious hobby. I am not a keeper of hots, but I do keep crocodilians and large constrictors. That alone sails be down the creek without a paddle.

Chris

Oh I can join you on the "I just think it sucks" fence. And as far as Texas joining, maybe on the exotics but as Rob has stated before...the rattle snake round ups pretty much save the laws for the native venomous. As ironic as it is...the activity despised by most of us is saving our hobby. I do have some strength in our government as they have been able to keep the gigantic animal rights groups (who do have the united forces and the drive to get off the forums and go dump blood on themselves in front of zoos) from shutting down any kind of captive environment an animal could be put in. We are lucky enough to have a stong enough interest in education in our nation to keep from shutting down such. If we could only get the interests to better fund things it would be wonderfull.

I feel for you with the crocadilians and the constrictors as my state already has a dangerous animal act prohibiting them. Where we are in some luck is the State law does not have a specific size for a dangerous snake (4ft for a crocadilian). However, many city laws do. But on the state side a judge could easily find your 6 ft snake dangerous while another situation and different judge might find a 14 ft snake acceptable. Where it is your responsibility is to not have a situation put you in question. If you have a 14 ft snake securely housed in a separate room and the proper resources to deal with it, and you can show people how this is not a threat, you might not have people reporting you for what they think is a threat to their safety. If you are walking down the street with an 8 ft burmese python on your shoulders...you may find yourself in court very quickly and I doubt many judges will agree an 8 ft snake around your neck is anything but dangerous. I could get into why I said 14 ft instead of 15 ft but I think I have said enough today.

I just wish that we could come up with some alternative to all of this crap. I know that I am not quite as experienced and knowledgeable as many of you in here are, but I know that I am a responsible keeper and provide as best of care for my animals as I possibly can. I offer my animals as best of a life as I can.

I just hate the fact that a few morons can spoil it for everyone who truly cares. The worst part about it, is that after these bans take effect, the people it was intended to hurt could really care less while the rest of us are sitting there irritated about the law.

I just feel that there has to be some way to resolve this without going into all-out bans. There has to be a good way to keep irresponsible individuals from having the animals and allow those who have proven themselves, to be able to enjoy their hobby.

Alright time to clean cages and pray!!

Chris