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I was at a show and saw a piebald for sale for $12,500. I brought a friend with me (who was new to the hobby)and he said, 'why would anyone pay that much for a snake that is half white & half normal' They are very nice BUT his statement got me thinking...are they really worth that much and with the extreme common availability of ball pythons, will morphs like piebald eventually come down in price to the point that the average herper can enjoy them too? I know albino corn snakes were like a few hundred dollars when they first came out many years/decades ago, so I guess its just wishful thinking that someday I can own one too. ..LOL

1) How many eggs does a corn snake have in a year? When I bred them 12 years ago, they'd have 25 eggs twice a year!! With Balls, you're lucky to get 2 clutches of 6-9 2 YEARS in a row.

2) How soon do corns breed? 18 months. Ball females can tak up to 3 years to get to breeding weight and often only have 3-6 eggs their first clutch.

As for why anyone would pay "X"-amount for "X"-product, well who knows? Why would anyone buy a $150,000 car that can be outperformed by a $45,000 car? Why do people pay $150 for a dinner in a nice restaurant when you can get a meal that tastes better in a $45-per plate restaurant? People buy stuff because they like it. Capitalism. It rocks.

Only with Ball Pythons, that $12,500 can make you a hundred grand in less than 2 years if you use it properly.
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You are the master "point-maker" and doing it tastefully as well. I like what you stand for, LOL!! If there ever comes a time when I disagree with you...I'll change my mind.

Gimme all yer Balls!!

I thank you for the compliment. I never thought of myself of being clear and concise. Ha ha, its funny you mention it because I read over my posts later and I think "God, did I write that?". LOL!

Thanks bro. Glad that I'm not the only one that's insane in this BP world. Thank god we have other snakes to keep us sane!!
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You brought up some interesting points. My original post was not meant to be taken as a debate, argument or to offend anyone. I simply asked if anyone thought that piebalds would ever go down in price so that the average herper could purchase one. I am not sure when piebalds first hit the market but I hope that they go down in price in years to come....wishful thinking.

Anyway, Did your corn snakes really produce 50 hatchlings in one year??? very interesting. Also, if ball pythons are more difficult to breed then why are there so many available online & at the shows and why are they so inexpensive. Just curious.

Furthermore, I am aware that there are many differences between ball pythons and corn snakes...HOWEVER...I was simply trying to point out that ANY unique snake or new morph (not just corns), when it first hits the market, generally has a ridiculously high selling price but most seem to eventually go down in time as the supply/demand balances. I was not trying to compare anything more, especially breeding frequency or clutch size.

Plus, linking the sales of animals to other commercial/material products (such as cars or a nice dinner) is not necessarily the best comparison. Of course, that’s just my opinion. The sale of animals is just a bit different and more unique.

But none of this really matters since I could never afford one anyway…LOL

I never meant to argue or flame you. I just wanted to give you an insight into the hows and whys of the BP world and the reasons for them.

In my opinion, the price of Pieds will NEVER go down so that the average herper can afford them. The average herper buys $50 animals or cheaper. That's the reality of it. Leo geckos, Beardies, corns, kings, etc etc. No one will take the time to actually breed out Pieds to make $50 an animal. They will probably never drop to less than $1,000 within the next 20 years. They are not MEANT for the average herper. They are meant for the herper who's had some success in breeding some animals that sell for say $100-300. They sell 30 of those at a show or through a website and then they use that reptile money to get something different. Pieds and albinos and pewters and supers and clowns are NOT MEANT for the average herper. The average herper is an end user that doesn't produce or contribute to the progression of the hobby. I'm not saying its bad of them, its just their role. The average herper would not realize/appreciate the differences in BP morphs. They just want a "pet" snake that they can hold and put on the floor and watch and feed live mice because its "cool" etc etc etc. Dig?

Corns double clutch with ease and getting 25 eggs per clutch is not hard. A 5-year old could breed corns, and that's precisely why corns are the price they are.

The reason there are so many Balls for sale is because there is competition. I never said they were hard to breed. They aren't. They just aren't bred by accident (like corns) or by people who JUST got into the hobby (like corns) or by 12 year olds with a pair of them (like corns). They aren't hard and there is enough people that have dedicated enough time, space, and money to produce them. That's why you see them for sale. They are also more popular because of these facts. So if "X" amount of people try and 50% of "X" amount is successful, well then if you increase "X" then the amount of offspring you see also increases.
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At these shows, there is tons of imported Captive Hatched babies for sale at a dime a dozen.

For the benefit of those who don't know, Reptile farms in Afrika collect a given number of gravid (pregnant) females and wait out the egg laying, once the eggs hatch, they are sent out all over the world at a fraction of retail prices.

A breeder working with normals can't compete with Captive Hatched babies. They are just too many of them...

Imports absolutely kill the normal market and the true value of the snake is lost. Obviously a living creature should not have a price put on its head, but the market dictates that a CB normal BP would be over $300 if imports did not exist.
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Again, its just my opinion but I would've thought that with the readily avail/large numbers of normal BPs that in time piebalds would eventually end up in the mix and be a lot less expensive. I totally see all your points and do agree with you in a lot of ways and appreciate your feedback.

I can understand the high prices for animals that are simply problematic to keep/breed and/or simply not found in large enough numbers in the wild, such as angolan pythons or eastern indigos, or other rare/endangered snakes. But MORPHS within a widely available species such as BPs that have no mysteries in terms of husbandry or breeding, I thought would come down in price after some time. I do see your point that some reptiles are simply NOT meant for the average herper, BUT with the herp industry growing by leaps and bounds, a lot more 'average' herpers are buying/selling/breeding/keeping animals that were rarely available 5-10 yrs ago.

As for Piebalds or any BP morph not being for the average herper...??? Since you continued to compare cornsnakes...its like saying that a lavender is not meant for average herpers but a normal corn is. Besides, many dealers sell BPs as a great beginner snake (despite feeding probs) or as a great snake for the average herper.

Anyway, I love to chat about it since I was bored tonight anyway with nothing on TV. By all means, I do not mean to sound upset or anything...Its really no big deal...lol..I have enjoyed talking/posting about it... I just feel bad for the poor girl/guy who buys a $3000 50% or 66% possible het and finds that it doesn't pay off! It doesn't cost me anything to chat about it LOL...if anything, I have learned a few things

Change the word "meant" and replace it with "not interested in". The average herper is not interested in either breeding reptiles (period, OR for a living) and the average herper is not interested in spending more than a hundred bucks for an animal. Its not a big deal, its just the way it is. Like the average dog owner is not going to spend $7,000 on a show dog. The average fish-tanl owner is not going to spend $700 on a cool cichlid. The average motorcycle owner is not going to spend $35,000 on a tricked out Hog.

Its not rocket science, its just the way it is. Not bad, not good. Idifferent.
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Let me start this post by telling you that I will not be as eloquent as Jeff, nor nearly as knowledgable, but hey, my opinion is my opinion and it is AS good, if not better than..........
Firstly, let me ask you what you consider to be an 'average herper'? I consider myself to be an 'average herper' in the sense that I have a love for snakes ( specifically BP's) and love to own, play with, and generally admire as well as educate the ignorant or uneducated friend on generally a grassroots level. However, as a 'normal herper' I also have never bred any of my 11 BP's, though I do hope to do so. With that said, I own 6 morphs which are $3000 in value. I do not consider myself a breeder, nor do I aspire to become commercially viable in this business. What I do hope, however, is to produce, and in turn sell my morph offspring to be able to purchase the morphs that I love. I believe the difference between the two types of BP owners fall into two categories: For the money, and, conversely, for the love. I do it for the love, and would love my morphs if they were $100,000 or $10 equally.

And you write just fine. Just fine indeed.

Mykee, It is really cool to hear from someone who DOES spend what I would consider a "lot of money" on BP morphs just to enjoy them. When I talk about my breeding projects and people ask "but who will pay so much for them?" I tell them that there are people like you out there

Although, I don't think breeding for the love and breeding for the money are mutually exclusive. I love ball pythons. They are the *perfect* size in my opinion and pretty as hell. I love the normals - just love them. And I love them more each time I hold them. The variety is just fantastic. I also love the morphs. I currently have albino and axanthic morphs and I consider the piebald to be my "holy grail"

However, I am breeding them and hope to be able to support my family on the money I make from selling them. I want to be able to do this because spending my days taking care of snakes and rodents is something I enjoy and having my husband able to work at home is good for the whole family. Making a living breeding ball pythons teaches my kids that working hard to raise living things is honorable (I think farming and ranching is fast becoming a lost art and our kids are missing something important). It's a lot more satisfying to earn a living producing something tangible - something to take pride in - rather than paper pushing and working in a position that holds no more importance than the paycheck that comes with it. Not only that but there is excitement that comes from waiting to see what comes out of an egg. It's like waiting for presents on Christmas morning.

So anyway, I think there are a lot of great reasons to breed ball pythons or any other animal you love.

Laura

Do you know how many hets are sitting out there in the breeders house ??
Last year a female pied was selling at $8500 - $10000 each.
This year we can buy at $6000 each no problem and a guy was selling a 02' 500gram female for just $5000 in kingsnake a couple of months ago.
And check out the hets price....
$5000 pair last year
but $3000 pair and $4750 trio this year....
In no more than 5 years, we can definitely buy a pied for $1000 each.
There are always some people who sell them for less......

Think what you want.

Dreamer.

Email me in 5 years.
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I'm seeing two questions here.

1. At what rate will prices fall as supply increases?

2. How low will they go before stabilizing at the price where people are just willing to produce?

They are both hard questions and anyone’s guess. Even within ball python morphs I suspect the answer will be different for each morph depending on factors such as how high the initial price was (high prices = more breeding effort), how attractive the morph is, and if there are any shortcuts to identifying some of the hets (hence encouraging breeders to produce more possible hets).

I'm really wondering about the stabilization price. Will it be as high as $1,000 or will it be more like $500? When you come right down to it, apart from the initial investment, breeding piebalds shouldn't be any harder than normals. Some still breed normals for $20-50 but of course there will be much more demand for piebalds and a much smaller supply as virtually none to import. I just wish the 30 balls I'll hatch this year where all worth $500 and not $40.

3) How much does demand increase for every price drop of $500. Only a select few people can afford a $10,000 snake. Many, many more people can afford a $5,000 snake.

At $3,000, the demand will far outweigh the supply. I think they will stabilize. Why are albino boas STILL $1,000? They have like 30 babies per litter and the albinos have been around for 10 years!

What makes you think Pieds are going to drop so fast?
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I really don't even want to hazard a guess as to how fast piebalds will fall. They have come down a long ways already but they are so impressive that demand will be high at these lower prices.

It seems like $1,000 USD might be a sort of resistance point in the snake industry. I think albino burms hung up there for a while. Ghosts and pastels are currently close. Maybe that is the price at which large numbers of serious pet keepers will be willing to purchase and below which some breeders will stop producing a given morph in favor of "higher end stuff". I have trouble understanding the stop producing side of this as that seems like more then enough to me to be worth my time but I guess if you have even more profitable options …

How long will it take for piebalds to get to $1,000 or whatever their equilibrium price will be? Who knows.

Well,

Yes prices could drop faster than you know what if just ONE PERSON decided to make it so. Believe me it could happen. How much is a morph (i don't care, pick one, pick a dozen, don't matter)? How much money is in the world? Our precious snake industry could be garbage in five years. Joe Blow buys 2.65 million USD worth of morphs (and pays huge for adults, etc) sets up a breeding operation with 10,000 normal adult females. What will happen to the industry in five years when that first year's production (which has been heldback) comes of age and produces a couple of times?

Let's hope it doesn't happen. If so, bring on the quadruple hets!!!

This isn't widgets we're manufacturing. "Joe Blow" isn't going to know how to make money from Ball Pythons. Yes, they are easy to breed. Dead easy. But how many people come here ALREADY OWNING a Ball Python and ask if they can house 3 or 5 together, or ask if its ok to peel the eyecaps off with vice grips or ask if cedar shavings are ok? Imagine an investor with NO snake knowledge. Not going to happen.

But let's just say it did happen and a guy pumped $3 million into Ball morphs. Why would he want to kill the market he JUST INVESTED IN? That would be crazy.

I'm not sure but I think there may already be a mass ball python breeder (someone who holds back tons of animals for breeders). I'm out of the loop but I've heard of a breeder who now has several ball morphs and who once owned HUNDREDS or breeder albino Burmese pythons. I really don't know anything about how many balls they may or may not have but if there is ridicules profit levels to be made then someone will make them.
I'm thinking they are aiming for the eventual nationwide pet store/wholesale market and not interested in advertising to the general public. Best to assume that at some point (probably a long ways off) all morphs will be priced at the line where they are just profitable to produce, if they are any higher, more will step up to produce them.

All morphs will eventually drop to lower levels. How long and how low is impossible to predict. MANY many factors are involved.

wow....

never heard of him....

Mr Average.....LOL

(ever lose $5000 in snakes in one year and not cry ...?....)

hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

corns breed at 18 months and lay average 15 eggs and 10 the second clutch...that's 25...

balls breed at 18 months and lay 9 eggs if you do it right...

yep....

corns sell average $20...

balls average $25.....LOL....(morphs add a little)...

mat

JY

You mind sharing how you do it right.

Thanks

yea...

pump the living snot out of them...only certain females grow like weeds...and only certain lines throw alot of eggs...?...

I got 7 to 9 first clutches alot...
I get 10 or 11 now alot....smallest clutch was 8....

but I am using big old fat girls and 5 year olds I bred and raised here...

small girls = small eggs and small clutches and small babies...

hamsters.(chinese,russian,syrian)...gerbils....deer mice...mice...rats....I raise them all and use them all....it is a pain in the butt...but they don't always eat what YOU want them too.....

it is not good to breed an 18 month old female....keep her till 2 1/2 years old them cycle er....better anyways....small babies suck.....(ask the people who do it...)*******ok...

.....have fun

JYReptiles

The two things that drive the morph market (and some of the rest of the reptile market to, but to a lesser extent) are vanity and greed. Vanity requires that you own something your friend doesn't. Greed inspires you to try to make money off other people's vanity.

Unfortunately, its not all greed. Some people genuinely think that some BP's look really cool. And they do. And some people would rather work with animals than be another cog in the gears of wrecking the planet. I would much rather work with snakes and sell a few hundred a year and live comfortably than by building cars, or engineering another mine, or being a tree biologist that studies the value of timber etc etc etc. Think about most jobs in the world and tell m they don't somehow relate back to killing the planet. Our very existence harms every other thing on this rock we live on.

Nes pas?
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I am amazed by the reality of this post and I never thought of it that way before! I guess I feel better about what I do now that I have read it! Since I am just now starting 2 of my own business I am really excited to be able to do what I love and love what I do. You know the funny thing, I would not be where I am today if I woulden't have read one little saying in my 6th grade agenda, it still sticks with me today, here is the phrase ... "Find something you love doing, and get someone to pay you for doing it!" Now that I have read that I have found 2 things I LOVE doing and started a buisness for each. Just so your not wondering the 2 things are breeding herps and making coustom home decor (candles, table fountains,ect...).
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~~~ Krystal - Future breeder of Pythons, Geckos, we'll see what else later! Specalizing in Ball Pythons and Leopard Geckos ~~~ www.geocities.com/krystal19_85 ~~~

"Find something you love doing, and get someone to pay you for doing it!"

Exactly. That's what its all about. Good on you.

np
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~~~ Krystal - Future breeder of Pythons, Geckos, we'll see what else later! Specalizing in Ball Pythons and Leopard Geckos ~~~ www.geocities.com/krystal19_85 ~~~

Jeff, a tree biologist doesn't wreck the planet. He / she doesn't set the price of timber. You know that is dictated by the market. A biogist generally leads a modest lifestyle, although is as rich as any. I agree with your other points but couldn't keep quiet about that one (if I have taken it how you meant it)

You know I was watching a report on American car engine sizes and fuel efficiency today. Wow, is all I can say. There's a long way to go before all car drivers aren't one of those 'cogs!'

I do agree with some of Jeffs points, but I really do feel it necessary to add why I do think Ball pythons (Pieds, and Many Morphs) will come down in prices faster then people with think. First of all they are one of the Easiest Boids to breed. In my opinion, your Doing very poorly if you only get 2 of your balls to take in a year as Jeff Mentioned was good above. 1 Male ball can breed more then 8 females in a season if cycled correctly. So, say you have a pied male. That male can potentailly make over 50 hets in just ones season? Doubt this? Go ask John Romeo or just glance at the classifieds and see the glut of all the Het pieds available. The Ball market will strickly be determined by Supply and Demand. IF there are a TON of poeple producing Pieds, then the Prices will come down becuase there is a TON more competetion. That is Capitalizm at its best. I am not saying you can do very well becuase you can, but to say that the pieds won't come down to average market price for many moons is false in my opinion. The Reptile business is changing leaps and bounds. Now people are easily willing to pay for a 500 dollar pet to even 1000 dollar pet instead of the 50 dollar pet mentioned by Jeff. I Think the balls are a great market with TONS of opportunity, but I think many people are fooled into the market with a lot of Unreal expectations. Pick project that can be used with many different morphs and you'll be fine. EX. I got a spider male last year as a baby. In 7 months, you bred 4 females giving me 28 eggs. 7 of those slugged, but still 21 eggs. Now, for anyone to breed a Male of any other snake in the Same Callender year is CRAZY!!! Only with the Balls. Females do breed at 18 months if they have the size and weight. Sure, some wait a longer time, but this year I had a Het Stripe Female produce Stripes before her 20th month. Just showing the reality of the market too. I think it is important for people to see that as well as all the other good things. Balls are a lot easier to breed and are a VERY hardy snake. Because of the Popularity, they are going to be HUGE for MANY years to come, but I do think it is time people realize some of the other points. Just my 2 cents. I love the Balls and have some AWESOME project, and I think I'll do very well in them. I just think people really need to do a lot more reasearch then emotional buying. I am sure I'll get crap for this post, but if you step back and look at it, it is the Truth. Balls are a great investment snake but before you think your going to make those Hundreds of Thousands of dollars (WHich CAN BE MADE) make some EDUCATED DECISIONS!!!!!! Jeff, You made great points. I am just showing a different spin. Take Care, Everyone. Jeremy Stone

Yes, I am a Boa guy first, and a Ball guy second, but it is a Fact the Balls are Much hardier and easier then Boas. That is another reaons they could be a better thing to invest in then Boas. They are a lot less Riskier. Both snakes are the BEst on the Planet. They are all awesome

Personally, I'm like your friend. I think the regular ball looks better, and I wouldn't pay that much for a snake...well maybe if it's something I really like, but not those. That's just for me. But if other people like them...well, that's their opinion; then I guess it's ok.

There's no doubt that regular and piebalds are both beautiful snakes. I too like the normal BPs better BUT then again, I have never owned a piebald so I remain subjective! LOL

Just out of curiosity, does anyone recall how much normal BP's were when they first became available on the herp scene?

They were $25 000 a piece when first offered for sale....

The problem with normals is that they are brought in every year by the thousands. Called wild caught. They've been available for a couple bucks as long as I can remember. Only recently have people been breeding them on any sort of commercial scale.
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And it's the morphs that got people to start breeding even normal balls in quantity. Some as byproducts of morph programs and some just due to the additional interest and as a starting point.

The greed will drive the very hard work of producing enough morphs to eventually get them to generally affordable levels. Imagine how long it would have taken to get as many piebalds as there are now if they where only a few hundred dollars to start with.

BY-product of all the hard work is indeed more CB normals! Everyone wins, including the wild population! How can that be bad?

Good stuff.

Its why we live in a free society. If you want to live where people tell you what to do or what to like or what to spend your money on or what is too expensive, then move to Cuba, Russia, Iraq, S. Africa, any communist nation, jail etc etc etc.
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The price of a piebald is very high because they are still, so far, uncommon. Most people in everyday life think that paying that kind if money for a snake is insane. But people are known to put big bucks into hobbies that they love. I know quite a few people who have put 10's of thousands of dollars into snow mobiles who have only been able to run them a few times in the past couple of years due to the lousy snow conditions we've had around here lately. About 8 or 9 years ago I was showing off a couple of AZ mountain kings that I had just bought to a friend. He though it was hilariously funny that anyone would spend a couple of hundred dollars on a pair of snakes. It was literally less then a couple hours later that he invited me into his office to show off his brand new putter that he had picked up for the ridiculously low price of only $200.00 The way I feel about golf, I think anyone willing to spend that much money on a single golf club is nuts. But hey, to each his own.

Actually if you really want a piebald, it's not that hard to get one. it just depends on what you are willing to give in order to get. You have two choices of currency, time or money. You should be able to pick up a het male this year for less then $1000.00. Possible het males should be able to be had for only a few hundred, easily within the price range of most hobbiests. Then with a lot of hard work and a bit of luck, you should be able to have your own piebald within only 5 or 6 years. You CAN have one, It just depends on how badly you want one.

Mark

If you want one bad enough, put the time and money that everyone else has into them. Either fork over the dough and get one right away, or breed some 50%-ers and get some in 3-7 years.

Excellent post.

Being a herp lover/ normal? (I dont think so)person. I think that most of what has been said above is correct, dependand on which way you look at things. I for instance am in the old american money tight situation. I'm not [bleep]in about it, thats just the way it is. Considering this I find that the price of Morphs (which I love)way out of my league. Often times I find it beyond belief that any snake could be priced so high. I understand the issues involved, having bread gecko's at one point. But still think its just a bit beyond a realistic price....am I just thinking this way because I DONT have the money? Maybe, although I would say that its more from observations of human behavior than anything else.

I costs money to breed animals...lots of it if you have to purchase anything at the current prices to breed with. Enough even if you try to breed normals. That said those of us wishing to get a nice morph...and yes I like pieds, will have to wait...untill we have the money, the price drops...lol, or capitalism dies ( very doubtfull). Or if human nature changes ...doubt that too

BTW; none of what I have said above is meant to start any flame war...

Hi,
I'd just like to add a few things to this thread if I may.
First, the price of anything, like an animals genetic make-up (morph), or, lets say a Stratavarious violin, is based on how rare that thing is. Piebaldism is extremely rare in nature in any animal (much more rare than albinism), that's why they were so much money to start with. Mohamed Ali's boxing talent & greatness was very rare, that's why he made so much money. The rarest things are always the most valuable. Is it effected by supply & demand? Of course, it's a commodity, and as such is effected by the laws of supply & demand just like vegetables, jelly beans, or pork bellies are. As something becomes less rare, it becomes less expensive.
Second, "normal" ball pythons that are truely captive bred are rare too, just not as rare as Piebalds. You have to understand that it's the imports that drive the prices down on normals; there are litterally tens of thousands of imported ball pythons that come in every year. And by imported, I mean that is what they truely are - they are not "captive born" in the truest sense. Captive born used to refer only to animals that are live bearers that were "born" in someones collection, be it a zoo or a private collector/breeder. Captive hatched meant that the animal in question was hatched (an egg-layer) under the same conditions. There didn't used to be the CB&B designation because it was not neccessary! They were almost always CB or CH in this country, but by no means is that exclusive to the U.S. The key is the animal was produced in a captive environment, not some run down bldg in a 3rd world country that all they did was round up all the gravid females in the area & hatched out the eggs in abhorrent conditions that any self respecting breeder would cringe at, then flown half way across the world before they even have a chance to shed. I think it is horrible to call these baby Balls "captive bred". I wish they would be honest & call them what they are - "imports that are one very small step away from being wild caught" baby ball pythons. I have lots of them in my collection BTW - I'm not opposed to them, I just don't like the way they are marketed.
Thirdly, piebalds have come down substantially in price. Just a few years ago you couldn't touch one for under $25,000. Now you can get low whites for $5,000 sometimes. What more do you want?

Jeff is right; the expensive stuff is not for your average herper. If it was, it wouldn't be expensive !

Thanks,

Paul Edwards

Hi,
I'd just like to add a few things to this thread if I may.
First, the price of anything, like an animals genetic make-up (morph), or, lets say a Stratavarious violin, is based on how rare that thing is. Piebaldism is extremely rare in nature in any animal (much more rare than albinism), that's why they were so much money to start with. Mohamed Ali's boxing talent & greatness was very rare, that's why he made so much money. The rarest things are always the most valuable. Is it effected by supply & demand? Of course, it's a commodity, and as such is effected by the laws of supply & demand just like vegetables, jelly beans, or pork bellies are. As something becomes less rare, it becomes less expensive.
Second, "normal" ball pythons that are truely captive bred are rare too, just not as rare as Piebalds. You have to understand that it's the imports that drive the prices down on normals; there are litterally tens of thousands of imported ball pythons that come in every year. And by imported, I mean that is what they truely are - they are not "captive born" in the truest sense. Captive born used to refer only to animals that are live bearers that were "born" in someones collection, be it a zoo or a private collector/breeder. Captive hatched meant that the animal in question was hatched (an egg-layer) under the same conditions. There didn't used to be the CB&B designation because it was not neccessary! They were almost always CB or CH in this country, but by no means is that exclusive to the U.S. The key is the animal was produced in a captive environment, not some run down bldg in a 3rd world country that all they did was round up all the gravid females in the area & hatched out the eggs in abhorrent conditions that any self respecting breeder would cringe at, then flown half way across the world before they even have a chance to shed. I think it is horrible to call these baby Balls "captive bred". I wish they would be honest & call them what they are - "imports that are one very small step away from being wild caught" baby ball pythons. I have lots of them in my collection BTW - I'm not opposed to them, I just don't like the way they are marketed.
Thirdly, piebalds have come down substantially in price. Just a few years ago you couldn't touch one for under $25,000. Now you can get low whites for $5,000 sometimes. What more do you want?

Jeff is right; the expensive stuff is not for your average herper. If it was, it wouldn't be expensive !

Thanks,

Paul Edwards