Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi all:

Someone on venomousreptiles.org once said that there is another danger to hots beside their fangs. I have been bitten by something else: the bug. They said that it would become a passion. It has become a passion for me.

I am already planning on attending the next hot show in Hamburg and expanding my collection. Since it is not a good idea to buy on impulse, I am trying to plan out what I am going to buy.

Here is my requirements: 1. small 2. sub-lethal venom (high LD50). 3. good eater. If they can be a good eater, I would love them.

I had thought that the sidewinder might be a good choice, but I have serious concerns about them being picky eaters. I had thought that I was going to buy a sidewinder, but research and reading makes me not so sure that they are an easy species to keep.

I can always fall back on the copperhead or another pigmy, but some variety might be nice.

I have heard that rock rattle snakes Crotalus. l. l. may be a good choice: samll, and sub-lethal. Also, one person told me that it is a good eater.

What animals am I missing? What would be a great choice for me? If you were me, what animal would you buy? Please suggest animals that might be a great fit for me.

Please help. The show is coming up in three weeks. I d like to be prepared for the show.

Another reptile that I have to read much more about is the Gila Monster. I am considering that one. Husbandry seems simple and you can do cage cleaning with leather gloves.
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Longtang. I like snakes and rats.

Sheesh I sure hope you dont come looking at my table. Stick with a cornsnake, youll be much better off as will the rest of the world.

Cheers!
Anja

>>Sheesh I sure hope you dont come looking at my table. Stick with a cornsnake, youll be much better off as will the rest of the world.
>>
>>Cheers!
>>Anja

Hi Anja:

So your advise is that I stick to cornsnakes. Your point seems be that I am not ready for hot snakes if I have asked the type of questions that I put forth. I have seen this sentiment a lot in the hot community. Many opinions begin with the sentence: "if you have to ask . . ." and end with " . . . then you are not ready."

So I've asked. So I've been marked as not ready. So there.

There ends my search. For I've been deemed as not ready for hots.

Sometimes I think it is better not to ask. Just go underground and do research. Then make the decisions for myself. There is just way too much judging out for a person like myself who doesn't have the thickest skin to begin with (I have thin skin).

Thx for the input, none-the-less.

Wish you the best and hope you have a good show in Aug. I'll try not to come and bother you at the show. No hard feelings.

sincerely. Tang.
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Longtang. I like snakes and rats.

There is way too much judging going on in this forum...... Every one seems to be above everyone here..... This person asked a simple question and got a simple minded responce...... Why doesnt someone be original here and give a new hot keeper some advice on the question they asked....... Who is anyone here, to tell someone they are or are not ready to keep a hot...... Everyone starts somewhere...... I say you get what ever you feel comfortable with...... You did your research and I am sure you have an idea of what you want..... I would go with a pair of tigers.... East to keep and not very aggressive......
Gregg

I do agree with GaboonKeeper. Tang,I would either go with a Baby Florida Cottonmouth or even a well started White Lip Tree Viper(T. Albolabris). Baby Fl. Cottons were the 2nd venomous I ever kept when I was beginning some years ago. In my opinion, they hook very well and feed great on rodents. White Lips are just as good as long as their well started. Keep them at about 80 degrees with misting every other day. Hope this helps you out some.

Joe

Ya know what, I am no one to be telling anyone what they should and should not get. My only concern is the venomous community itself and how the actions of other people effect us.

Longtang have you had any supervised instruction into keeping hots by someone who has the experience to do so? Do you have a mentor? Or did you just jump right into this with that pygmy you have? Coppers, cottons, white lips and pygmys all can be great starter snakes for venomous keeping. Also a ticked off ratsnake or coachwhip is great practice. Im sure youve seen all of this in the forum before. I just get tired of the same questions over and over again about "what hot snake should i get?". If youve done your research as you say you have I know there are websites listing LD50 of pretty much every snake out there that has been tested and documented. Ive added a link to this message containing a good venom chart.

I apologize for snapping at you, I was tired and already irritated and I know thats no excuse. Feel free to stop by my table at Hamburg and we can talk more, Ill be the short blond chick with Mexican West Coast rattlesnake babies on the table.

Cheers! Anja
LD50 chart

Anja....
Now wasnt that easy....LOL.... Look we all start out some way.... I my self have been keeping hots for well over 10 years and was totaly self taught..... When I started keeping there was noone to show me the ropes..... There are not many hot keepers in my state even now, nevermind over ten years ago..... I can totaly understand how you feel about protecting our community..... We are few and the one agaist us are many..... And dividing us is the worst thing we can do....... I will be looking foward to seeing you at your table at Hamburg to chat.....
Gregg

Honestly, I think you're smart asking questions. Although I would have loved a mentor, they are difficult to find. I'm completely self taught other than what my dad raised me with and he steered well clear of venomous species. I've had some luck with herp keepers at a couple of zoos willing to share their knowledge but I know not everyone is equally lucky. If I didn't have a parent on the zoo staff, it might have been very different.

As far as snakes go, if you want something different than a copperhead (which I love) or a pygmy, you might try a cottonmouth. Because of their aquatic nature they offer a whole different set of parameters to work with while still having a hot that eats well.

let us know what you get,
e

Seems like you have gotten advice from both ends of the spectrum.
Just a couple of points to address:
1) There is no such thing as a starter snake. You should research whatever it is that you want and then get it. Therefore, anyone here's recommendations should be for a place to start your research, not your buying.
2) Whoever told you that you could just wear leather gloves to clean a Gila's cage? Are you insane? Normal leather gloves and a Gila are a combination that will lead you down the path to excrutiating pain. I would recommend that you get together with someone who actually keeps Gilas and spend some time working with them and their animals before you think about getting one of these animals.
3) There is nothing wrong with asking questions. Asking people you don't know to tell you what kind of snake you should get seems a lot like asking someone you don't know to go on The Dating Game to pick out your spouse for you. Find some snakes that interest you and ask people how hard they are to keep or specific husbandry information.
4) Don't be the next guy whose girlfriend gets bitten by the illegal cottonmouth that he smuggled into the state and let crawl around the house unsupervised for exercise! Learn about the snakes and the laws before you get them.
Just A Cheesy Grin From,
The Mouse In The House

Thanks everyone for your inputs.

I actually find that the hot community to be in general very kind and patient. I like being a member of it.

I understand that the hot community is under a lot of public scrutiny and has to self police in order that it does not get a bad name. It would only take a few irresponsible persons to give the community a bum rep. I certainly don't want to be one of those persons.

That is why I said "no hard feelings" I understand that this is a tightly-knit community and people in the community have to be protective of their rights.

Thanks for the invite to chat at the show, Anja. It will be fun to chat and look at different snakes.

BTW Someone asked me to re-think using only gloves to handle Gilas. I admit I don't have enough experience really know first hand. However, I got that info off Dr. Steward's web page. I believe he is considered the leading captive care guy. I quote: "Gilas of all sizes can safely be handled using a pair of heavy leather gloves. Since Gilas don’t have the hollow fangs of front-fanged venomous snakes, even if their teeth could penetrate the leather,. . . ."

His site is http://www.drseward.com/New_Site/HShandling.htm . That is where I got the info.

Another point that is also well taken is that asking someone to suggest a species should be the beginning of research and not the end. I agree. I will use the suggestions here as a springboard into more research. Sometimes I do run into the problem of that there is not a whole lot out there on a particular snake. The rock rattle snake is a good example.

Thx all. Again, I am happy to be a member of this community and I will do my part to be a responsible owner. The last thing this community needs is someone who ruins it for everyone.

sincerely.
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Longtang. I like snakes and rats.

First, if you're going to go for gloves, I'd get the Kevlar lined Midwest gloves. The money's a small price to pay for a bit more peace of mind. Second, I personally would do almost anything to avoid being chewed on by a non-venomous lizard the size of a Gila... Ouch! I have only slight experience with lizard bites, but they seem to have very very strong jaws. And then having to worry about being envenomated in the mix, not my idea of a fun afternoon. So my advice is to take the $1200 you would have spent on a Gila, buy 3 Leach's giant geckos, and mail them to me .

>>First, if you're going to go for gloves, I'd get the Kevlar lined Midwest gloves. The money's a small price to pay for a bit more peace of mind. Second, I personally would do almost anything to avoid being chewed on by a non-venomous lizard the size of a Gila... Ouch! I have only slight experience with lizard bites, but they seem to have very very strong jaws. And then having to worry about being envenomated in the mix, not my idea of a fun afternoon. So my advice is to take the $1200 you would have spent on a Gila, buy 3 Leach's giant geckos, and mail them to me .

Dude:

I just did that. Look for them in the mail!

Enjoy. Let me know how they turn out for ya.
cheers.
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Longtang. I like snakes and rats.

Longtang,
Midwest offers two types of gloves; I believe the ones with staples are designed especially for Gilas. Remember, they're puncture-resistant, not puncture-proof.
Sincerely,
Bill Huseth
kcf