Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Other than the obvious (different species, different tails) could anyone tell me the differences between the 2 mossy geckos? Diet/housing. Can they be kept in small breeding groups with only one male or 2 males? Which one is easier for a beginner? Are either of them handleable (on a par w/ a crested?) Also, what is the difference between the mossy leaf tails and the cork bark leaf tails? (I'm getting the sci. names mixed up & would appreciate clarification) I would appreciate any information you could provide. My daughter recently got her first crested, but I've seen some pics of the mossys and they look really interesting with their color/texture/patterns. We would like to breed something and want to narrow it down to one species to work on... that is also has good pet potential as I know the kids will want to handle the young ones, etc...

Thank-you!
-Bonnie

Pet potential is about as low as it can go for leaf tails. If you want them to thrive and possibly breed you simply cannot handle them. These gecko stress very easily even the CB and for them to thrive and breed you need as low a stress enviroment. On top of that the are noctural and are a not very active gecko. Not a good "pet" for a child, but an interesting breeding project and genus to work with. As for the Mossys there are two subspecies, Uroplatus sikorae sikorae and Uroplatus sikorae sameiti. Uroplatus s. sikorae is the most common species available, they have a black mounth and Uroplatus s. sameiti has a pink mouth and supposedly slightly larger. Their care requirements are the same. You can house them in groups provided you have an appropriate cage size. Corkbark leaf tails are not part of the sikorae group and as you proboly know look very different from them. Their scientific name is Uroplatus pietschmanni.
-Matt

well if youre lookin to get into something new, than leaftails wouldn t be a bad choice. obviously some are hardier than others, but the mossies make very good pets and are probably the easiest of the genus. i think leaftails in general make good pets, compared to other geckos. you might not be able to hold satanics a lot, but i handle my mossies and henkels more often then my leopard geckos and it doesnt stress them at all! in my opinion, i think mossy leaftails make great pets and are real easy. the hardest thing aobut you having these geckos would be you finding them!

i think mossy leaftails are more handle"able" than leopard geckos because leaftails are DESIGNED to fall if that were to happen.

I have to disagree on several things you said in your post jadrig. I have quoted from your last post.
i handle my mossies and henkels more often then my leopard geckos and it doesnt stress them at all! in my opinion

Although I have not kept mossies, I have kept corkbark leaf tails which many people agree to be one of the hardiest of the genus Uroplatus. To say that handling does not stress Uroplatus is ridiculous. Almost anyone on this forum would agree that handling should be kept to a bare minimum on these geckos because the fact is it does stress them.

i think mossy leaftails make great pets and are real easy. the hardest thing aobut you having these geckos would be you finding them!
Another point I disagree with you on. Uroplatus by many are considered to be one of the most fragile group of geckos. They do not breed easily or regularily. WC animals are especially difficult and although they may settle in eventually treating newly WC geckos can be a long and difficult process. These geckos are not "real easy" as jadrig said, and saying this is very misleading.

i think mossy leaftails are more handle"able" than leopard geckos because leaftails are DESIGNED to fall if that were to happen.
To even compare leaftails to leopard geckos I think is absurd. Leopard geckos are about the easiest reptile to keep and leaftails are not even in the relm of leopard geckos I think. I repeat, these are not a beginning reptile species.
-Matt

I also disagree. Leaf-tailed geckos are definantly not for beginners. There aren't enough leaf-tailed geckos and we're fighting to keep and breed them as much as possible. they can't get into the hands of beginners and i strongly disagree with calling them "easy" to keep. I disagree with saying they are more handable because they are designed to fall. Leaopard geckos are designed to stay on the ground and leaf-tailed geckos are designed to stay in the trees and not fall.

i bought two mossies at the last show for $40 each, a s.sikorae and a s.sameiti. it was at the end of the show and the guy probably wouldve sold me the trio for $100. i know that leaftails are hard to get your hands on, but no ones fighting for anything. they are like fruit, they are seasonal. they are not disappearing any faster than anything else in the world. and i have had success with breeding henkels, and my mossies are gonna do fine once i match up the different strains, but i dont blame any success on my "superb knowledge of the species". all you can do with animals like this is aquire as much knowledge as you can, keep them alive, and sit back and take notes. its not "luck" but more like "chance" backed up by a little bit of knowledge. if someone is willing to fork out $80-120 than they deserve to have one.

"i just dont think that my post was offensive to leaftail keepers."
Your post wasn't offensive. I simply replied with my opinion but it was just blown out of proportion.

"if the animal is acclimated and you know how to approach the animal, they are very docile and easy to hold without any stress."
I agree. I meant that I dont think they are a good pet for kids to handle a lot. I think the less handling the better unless its for a reaon like you said to eat babyfood.

yeah fuzion, that really wasnt directed towards you, thats the one downside to these forums. some responses end up being responses to the forum or one side and not a specific person. i know that youve kept them successfully and all if i remember correctly.

i dont like to bicker, especially the fact that there are probably 10x more people that read this forum than there are members in it, but the only thing that i find that is "MISLEADING" is someone making a comment[a strong suggestion] on a species that they have NEVER kept in their life time. now im not saying that they are so different, but i would not be offending people on this forum just for someone being curious or having my own opinion if they had only kept just one species of uroplatus. now, im not knocking anyone or taking any credit from them just cuz they only have a few uros. For all we know, it could be a 12 year old boy out there who knows all the secrets. this forum is a better source of knowledge than all of the uroplatus books put together. with forums like this, books are practically just for pics now. life is an open study/experiment, why let it stop in your geckos cages?

Bonnie,

I would suggest sticking with the crested geckos for a bit if you are interested in breeding either of the two gecko species you mentioned. With the crested gecko, you will have more room for error in comparison to a mossy leaf tail. Crested geckos can tolerate fluctuations in their environment better. Leaf tails as a genus need to have all their needs met as far as temperature and humidity are concerned or their health will decline rapidly. Mossy leaf tails should not have temperatures above 85 degrees and humidity absolutely needs to be between 65-90%. Leaf tails in general are relatively difficult to breed and are not very prolific. Cresteds, on the other hand, are easy to breed and are much more prolific. Cresteds are also easier to get and will make your investment back as they can produce year round, mossies have a definitive breeding season. The size of a cage will also be dependent. Cresteds can be housed in a 20-30 gallon for a pair to a 1.2 trio. Mossies usually do not breed in small cages and would need atleast 2’ x 2’ x 2’ sized enclosure (and even then that is slightly small). I know only one of us on the forum has bred mossies and he has a custom 4' long enclosure that is heavily planted.

Again, I will recommend sticking the crested for now until you know all the ins and outs of working with a low temperature and high humidity gecko. Think of crested geckos as the training gecko before keeping a leaftail, the care is similar just not nearly as forgiving in the leaf tail genus. I have bred cresteds and can say that they are much easier and hardier than any leaftail gecko. If you are still set on getting a mossy leaftail, I, personally, will not refuse my help in keeping them. I'll do my best to get you the most information possible, this is what the Uroplatus forum is about.

Jason

one thing i dont think anyone hit on....i think bonnie was asking about the mossy prehensile-tailed gecko, i.e. rhacodactylus chahoua, rather than the two subspecies of mossy leaftails. i agree, they look nice, but they tend to be even more expensive than the leaftails, although i think their care/husbandry is similar to leaftails and cresteds. hell, i keep my cresteds in almost the same exact conditions as most of my leaftails and both genera tend to do very well as so. but i do not have any experience with the rhacodactylus chahoua. i know he's lurking around here somewhere, probably just not that often, but if geckoholic could come out of the shadows he could probably offer some advice. if i remember correctly, he's dealt with the mossy prehensile-tails, as well as many species of leaftails. i would check up on caresheets if both if you could track em down, and read up on as many as possible because sometimes you can run into conflicting information...the more you gather the better the idea you get. hope you and your family enjoy your new animals.

And I was inquiring between both the Uroplatus mossy leaftail and the R. chahoua prehensile tailed mossy geckos. (both of which I believe have 2 sub-species). I have read everything I can get my hands on as well as every link and website and bulletin board that I could find, which is why I wanted to get some additional feedback.

From what you guys have said, it sounds like the mossy leaf-tails are not handled even as CB babies? That they would not make good pets? (please correct me) Basically, I'm looking for a gecko to breed that is very interesting & unique (I LOVE the lichen look) but that will tolerate handling to some extent several times/week. (IE: my daughter will take out the crested or bearded dragon and sit them on her lap while on the computer or playing video games. Or we'll take out the Crested to "hand walk" and feed it some baby food with the CGD mixed in off our fingers. I want them to be used to us and calm when handled so if any medication or treatment is required in the future, it won't provide additional stress in handling it. We do this probably once/day 4 times a week. He's out for no more than 15 min's at a time. Would that type of handling be too much for, NOT the breeding ADULTS but any CBB that we may get?

I live in VA so the humidity part is almost a given LOL... I honestly believe that we could provide the proper environment with out too much trouble (our indoor temps are in the 70's and humidity is around 50% naturally indoors w/o any misting or water added). Gotta love those 100% humidity/no rain in sight days!

I guess my only other question is, for breeding do they need quiet and isolation or would they be ok in a large, planted cage in the midst of a home? (they would have the family walking past ect and maybe sometimes stop to peer into the cage but not to the extent where there are kids tapping on the glass or being obnoxious/trying to reach inside) Or are most of these geckos kept in more secluded/isolated areas for breeding?

I appreciate everyone's experience and view points.

-Bonnie

I think any gecko in the Rhacodactylus family would be a better choice than a leaf-tail for what you're looking for in a pet.
And about the humidity. I would spray the tank anyway even if you get high humidity. I dont really look at the humidity percentage but spraying the tank is more important than the humidity because they need to drink.

I would stick with the rhacodactylus geckos. leaf tails tend to be difficult breeders when messed with much. They seem to tolerate handling to a great extent, my eban's and mossies in particular, but they don't breed when disturbed.

Cresteds can take it though. If you want a leaftail, give it a shot. But just start with one at first and make your mistakes with one. Focus on that animal and then build off what you learn from it. the gecko will tell you what it wants, just be patient.

Jason

"The fact that someone has not purchased a leaftail and is inquiring about the care of two specific species is a great thing. How dare the two of you flame someone over such thought, I'm pissed off because of that."

We weren't flaming anyone. We were disagreeing with a reply not the person inquiring about the care. I think you need to calm down and read the posts again.
Matt answered her questions and answered her about how handling them can stress them out because she said she was looking for something that "has good pet potential as I know the kids will want to handle the young ones."
I wouldn't call disagreeing with a post flaming.
We were warning that leaf-tails don't do well with beginners but we didn't just say that, I'm pretty sure all of the questions she asked were answered. Sorry if the answers werent as detailed as your reply.

"If you are still set on getting a mossy leaftail, I, personally, will not refuse my help in keeping them. I'll do my best to get you the most information possible, this is what the Uroplatus forum is about."

I don't think leaf-tailed geckos are good for beginners but that doesn't mean I wouldn't answer her questions if she got one. its what's best for the gecko. that is what the Uroplatus forum is about.
not trying to affended you jadrig or anyone and sorry if i did, was just disagreeing.

this [uroplatus] forum is one of the better forums on kingsnake. and definitely the best/most informative forum about any geckos. this forum and the day gecko forum are like night and day or like second grade compared to college. not putting that forum down or anythin but theres just not that much interest in day geckos now. i wish that i had read this forum before i had any leaftails. but honestly, thats my opinion and i would ve wished that someone would have turned me onto leaftails earlier. thats what this forum is about helping people and sparking an interest in this unique genus. i just dont think that my post was offensive to leaftail keepers. and i dont think it takes a rocket scientist to keep a mossy leaftail. just high humidity... if the animal is acclimated and you know how to approach the animal, they are very docile and easy to hold without any stress. im not sure about cork bark s dispositions but i know that a well acclimated mossy is a layed back gecko. and really, what i mean is that if my w/c gravid female henkels or female mossy will eat babyfood from an eyedropper while i hold em in my left hand,than its not really stressin them out. i have eight wild caught leaftails that were all in bad shape when i got them except for one, and most of them were inches from death. the only leaftail that i lost was a baby henkels that hatched. but my point is--- mossy leaftails are cool geckos. i ve kept and bred all kinds of geckos and chameleons for like 14 years now and the four mossies that i have now are like the coolest animals in every aspect. the last thing that i would want to do is to turn someone off to these unique creatures.

i know my henkels and mossies and hang from my finger with just their tail alone (even w/ regenerated tails) and be very comfortable with it. they[henkels] can even curl their tails upwards and flicker it when signaling,which chameleons cannot. wouldnt this qualify as being prehensile?

i would consider them mildly prehensile, as in it doesnt normally function as a grip. nevertheless, it does come in handy for them sometimes for that use. but r. chahoua is known as the mossy prehensile-tailed gecko.

No one was being rude at all. The more knoledgeable people here that contribut a lot to this forum are telling you how it is and are giving truthfull answers.

All leaftails are best not to be handled. I find it rude telling these knoledgable people that the are wrong........they are not wrong.....you should handle them as little as possable, and you are 100% wrong in saying that they are easier or better handled or whatever you said.

And I have a question......how can you say that your animals aren't stressed when you handle them? Reptiles don't really show emotion....so how do you know. Some animals are naturally slow and more docile so you are able to hold them.......like mossies.....but you can being holding them while they are perfectly still....but most likely the are FREAKED out and very stressed.

Sorry im just a little annoyed at some of these posts.

John

i know what youre sayin man,im really not tryin to be a jerk about it. i know that not everyone comes across the way they really want to in these posts because text has its limitations of expression. but ,truthfully, i m sure that there are opinions on every different leaftail for each different owner. some are backed up by literary research, knowledge of friends that have kept them, or hands-on research. i think that little conflicts of opinion are beneficial to this forum, as long as they dont get out of hand or offensive. these debates get everyone to express their concern of the matter, especially because there is such LIMITED useful documentaion about this genus. now, when i first started to read up on uroplatus, after i had aquired a "pair" of males in a trade, the first thing that i found/looked for was the uroplatus caresheet that im sure everyone here has read. well i forgot the details but it was misleading about the incubation period of their eggs. but this lack of documented knowledge was one of the things that kinda sparked my interest in them. now im just saying that i wouldnt say anything that i didnt think was true. i just reapeat stuff that i see with my own two eyes. i have kept and bred all kinds of animals all of my life, and yes i am a zoo major(which i think is irrelevant) that has completed all of my major classes. i dont like it to be thought that i pull info out of the sky. and if you or other people dont want to handle you animals, you dont have to. but i consider it necessary to evaluate my animal from time to time. and when i had to check and compare the throats of my mossies, im sure that stressed them a little, but it was necessary. and i think its good that someone who hasnt had any uros now has different sources of info. oh and by the way, reptiles do have emotion, all animals have emotion. if you look at a comparative scan with mammals, fish, birds, and reptiles you can see how everything and every lobe of the brain is analagous. reptiles obviously arent as emotional as mammals, cuz they didnt have to be, but they do respond to stimuli which is able to be interpreted.

I am surprised no one mentioned the more "personal" aspects of keeping leaftails. As a mother, you dont ever want to see your kids upset because the animals died, particularly if they had any hand in the death.. (stress, injury, etc) I know the first time an animal drops its tail in your hand, its really quite disturbing and would be terribly upsetting to the kids, regardless if the animal died afterwards. I think it would be devastating to get a neat new pet and have it die just when everyone got attached - this is pretty common with WC leaftails, and even with new CB's. Another thing is seasonality, you dont want to buy anything this time of year as they simply do not adjust as well as they will in the autumn.

Another item to consider is parasites. Most CB's (and it sounds like this is your preference, which is wise) dont carry parasites, but WC's are full of them. The last thing you want is your kids inadvertently spreading them around, or even worse, contracting them.
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