Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi there, I wonder if anyone could give me their opinion on this guy. I have had him since he was a hatchling in 1993. I bought him as a "het for blood red". Would it be safe to call him "hypo" as well? I have bred him numerous times to okeetee females but wonder if I should breed him to something else before it is too late and he is too old.

Thank you very much,
Carole

PS I took these pics while trying to hold him by myself and he wanted to be on the move so I apologize for the quality.

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www.reptilecare.com

Nice looking snake.

I do not see any checkering on the part of the belly that is pictured. I think that what you are seeing is caused by the blood red pattern mutant gene. So I would not call him hypo.

Paul Hollander

hi, thanks for the reply. So what he is exhibiting is "some bloodred"? Is that possible or is the bloodred gene more than one gene?

Thank you very much,
Carole
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www.reptilecare.com

Here is what I have gathered from various sources.

Blood red is more than one gene. The blood red stock originated from North Florida animals that were selectively bred for minimal pattern and dark red coloration. They eventually were outbred because of poor feeding and reproductive performance. The blood red pattern mutant gene is also called blood red or diffused. I like "diffused" best because that is the most descriptive to the gene's effect on the pattern, but others have different opinions. The gene also seems to have at least some effect on the pattern in heterozygous individuals. As for the red coloration, there seem to be an unknown number of genes involved in producing it. As far as I know, the blood red pattern gene just makes the pattern less obvious and does not affect the red coloration otherwise.

Paul Hollander

Thank you very much. This is what I have gathered in the last couple of days too. Thank you for confirming it. When I did breed this guy in the past to two different okeetees there was (about) 25% with patternless bellies. These snakes did very poorly and had the non-feeding problems you describe. At the time it was a sort of known fact that blood reds were poor doers in the beginning. I wonder if this alone should make me not want to breed this guy anymore. If I were to breed him to a "het for bloodred" female of any sort I wonder if all the babies would be patternless and would refuse to feed. Any comments on this more than welcome!!

Thank you again,
Carole

PS Keep in mind this guy hatched in 1993 so it was "back in the day" of the poorly bred bloodreds before crossing out I guess.
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www.reptilecare.com

>If I were to breed him to a "het for bloodred" female of any sort I wonder if all the babies would be patternless and would refuse to feed.

If the genes are as i believe, some of the babies from this cross would be normal, some would be similar to the parents, and some would be relatively close to patternless. As for the feeding, I have to defer to Kathy Love as I have never worked with blood reds of any sort. Good luck with your snakes.

Paul Hollander

it looks sufficiently outcrossed that I would not have expected non feeding babies soley based on its bloodred heritage. Most of my outcrossed bloods produce babies that start well these days. OTOH, I have other bloodlines that produce difficult feeders and have no bloodred at all.

If you look at the belly photo of your snake, you will see some very small black remnants of checks, near the side of the belly. In my experience, when there is a lot of pattern dorsally, and when those small belly spots are present, the snake will produce some normally (or almost normal) belly patterned snakes that are not bloodreds, even when mated with a "pure" blood. So that would make it not a "pure" blood itself, even though it exhibits many bloodred characteristics. I have had some animals like that myself, and it is difficult to know what to call them, since they are "almost" or "sort of" bloods. But they are not quite "pure" bloods!