Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Help.

My horned lizards just laid eggs on me. They barried them in the sand. Temperature in my house varies between 77-86. I'm not really sure if I should take them out and try to incubate them, or if I should leave them in there. I'm also not sure if it's too late. They were laid all day yesterday. Any advice? Much appreciated. Thank you.

Mikal Kintner

0.1.2 Horned Lizard
2.1.0 Red Tegu
1.2.0 B/W Arg. Tegu
0.1.0 Blue Tegu
1.5.1 Col. Red Tailed Boa
1.1.0 Blood Python
Asst. Fish
0.2.0 American Pitbull
Various frogs

Hi there,

well the first order of business, if you haven't already is check out www.Phrynosoma.com Cable has had some success breeding solare, and another hobbyist has bred platyrhinos, and there is detailed information on egg/baby care. So check that out and follow those instructions, and we should be hearing some news of baby HLs coming up. Any other questions, feel free to ask.

regards,
-Phil

You do want to incubate them if you can. If they have gone bad they will probably be seriously collapsing on you. A little moisture can bring them back if they are not too far gone.
Set the temp at 84 in the incubator and put them in a little cup with vermiculite or perilite, not touching each other.
Send some pictures if you can.
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www.phrynosoma.com

I got them all out and in the incubator. There were 6. 3 of the six were tiny, about the size of pees but ovular, and they were dark yellow. I'm assuming those are dead, but I left them all in the incubator anyways. A fourth one was dark yellow and about the size of a jelly belly jelly bean. I'm assuming that one made it a little longer, but died as well. A fifth was large like a marble, white, but a quarter of it was caved in. I'm assuming that one was dead as well but I still have hope for it. The sixth was the same size as the fifth, a marble sized oval, white in color and perfect in shape.

I took them out of the cage, have them in tupperwear with vermiculite, mildly damp, sitting on a brick in a large bin with water a little above the top of the brick and a fish heater to keep the water temperature about 85, and a towel over the top to keep the temperature at about 84. At this point I think only one is likely to have lived thus far. Maybe the lizard will lay more eggs soon though. I'm not really sure which one of the three it was, but only one was fairly large, and it's still pretty big.witha very lumpy belly. I'm thinking she didn't have the right material to nest in, so she didn't drop them all. I added a dish full of mildly damp vermiculite at ground level for them to lay eggs in. The one I think it is has been sitting in its water dish constantly. What does this mean?

Thanks for all the help.

Keep a close eye on the ones you have doubts about. If they are dead they will start to mold and could kill off any good eggs you have.
Not sure how that setup will work, although I've heard of others using similar means. Does the temp stay pretty constant?

It is not unusual for HL's to sit in the water dish. It's healthy and keeps them hydrated.

Thanks for the great detail in your post.
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www.phrynosoma.com

Temperature has stayed between 82-86. I'm looking into buying an incubator. This was not planned. I'm looking at breeding my tegus, but they have another month before they lay eggs. I guess this HL came at a good time as a tester to my tegus. I'll hope for my HL eggs and try my best and incubating them properly.

Thanks for the advice.
Mikal Kintner

what species is this?

take care with this female. she may be egg bound as well, and attempting to loosen an egg that is stuck by sitting in the water. is she moving her rear around any, as if she's trying to dislodge something?
she could just be dehydrated as well. either case you may have to examine closer to make sure there are no eggs stuck, if she does not lay any in the next day or two. being egg bound can cause death from toxemia if not handled timely.
take caution with the temps as well, and make for a more constant between 84-86* if possible, allowing margins for unexpected rises in temperature. a few degrees too high may kill them. If you have a temporary drop in temperature though, it's not as likely.
did you keep these eggs upright in the same orientation that you found them, upon moving them? important they are placed in the same manner in which they were laid, and not disturbed. to do otherwise may kill the embryos.
they will begin to show collapsing again as the time nears to hatch. that is normal.

Mick
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"When tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign foe."

James Madison

A couple other things after the fact. When ever you take eggs up, what ever their position in the sand they need to be taken up and set in the incubator the same position. OFten a good egg will have a little pinkish color spot on the top part. It sounds like one or two of the eggs may make it, but I caveot that with if after 24 hours you've taken up the egg and what was up poistion when she laid and then you collected and set it in the incubator and set the up in the down position, there is a likelyhood that the egg has attached to the wall in the original up position and may not make it if it's not set in the same position, even if it was originally a viable egg. I have hatched lizard eggs of all kinds in California on top of my water heater which has a similar gradiation in heat, so it is possible to hatch them using what you have, as long as it doesn't get much over 86 degrees. You didn't say what specie this is? Also Fireside hit the nail on the head. IF your lizard starts looking shriveled up down by its tail and back legs that might mean she is ematiated and egg bound. If she does have eggs you should be able to see the outline of them on her side or under her stomach. Are all the lizards eating well, as she needs to get her strength back, hopefully she is eating. ALso for the sake of conversation, if you take a large pile of damp wet sand and pile it in the corner and put it in two bricks and cover the top with a rock or flat brick, with a a small crack big enough to easily dig into, this works well when it comes to laying eggs........in the future you'll need to keep your eyes on your female as they can be tricky I have misse da few egg laying sessions as well in the past......Cheers!!!
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Phrynosoma.com

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signature file edited. [phw 11/14/04]

I want to thank everyone for their feedback, and advice once again.

The species are all Platyrhinos. All three of them are eating well on crickets and ants. They all seem active, and alert.

The temperature in the incubator seems to become a steady 84.5-85.5. All eggs were moved very gently in the same position they were laid with a little bit of the sand to keep them from shifting too much.

I have another question. Can a female lay eggs without a male being present as chameleons do?

Also, my HLs raise their back area and shake their tail when they hunt for food. I suppose several different reptiles shake their tails mimicing rattlers, but I've never seen any that do this just around feeding. Is this normal? I thought it was cute anyway... I used to have HLs as a kid, and never observed that movement.

Again, all advice has been much appreciated.

Mikal Kintner

horned lizards do not lay eggs for several seasons following a single mating with a male, as for example box turtles do. I also know of no oviparous species that lays infertile eggs without a mating.

here's a good incubator idea. sounds a bit like what you are doing.

http://members.aol.com/TheWyvernsLair/incubator.html

Mick
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"When tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign foe."

James Madison

Do I have to have AOL to view that? My browser wouldn't let me see the site.

Apparantly the HL is still laying a couple eggs around. I'm guessing the nesting site isn't available. I will try to make a shelter as described in an earlier post to provide a nesting site. Does anyone else have any suggestions? Currently they're on sand, with rocks and a hide log. I've added vermiculite to a corner of the cage to see if that would work as her nesting choice, and it hasn't. She is still dropping them in the dirt. Would mildly damp moss or something of the sort work?

What does an HL look for in a nest? (I.E. Moisture, warmth, type of substrate, density of substrate, open space or burried, etc.)

I will soon take pictures and hopefully in 6 weeks or so follow up with new ones.

Mikal Kintner

ok try this time...

pretty much what she will look for is a loose but slightly damp soil, probably in the open.

members.aol.com/TheWyvernsLair/incubator.html

Mick
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"When tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign foe."

James Madison