Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Well, I decided to redo the vermiculite. I figure, what have I got to lose, they are already are dented anyway? (2 of the 6 have pretty significant dents in them--the other 4 really aren't that bad.). I had misted the vermiculite before I had placed the eggs in it, but had not actually moistened it and wrung it out--so I did this with a new batch, and repeated the thumb indentition--egg placement scenario. I had already marked the eggs--in fact, I marked them before I had even taken them out of the nest. As far as fertility--I saw the male and female turtle mating, and assumed like an idiot that these eggs must be fertile since she laid the eggs at the appropriate time after mating, and made the nest deep enough, etc. So, I guess my next question is on candling the eggs--she laid them on June 9. Should I candle the eggs now, and if so, what will I be looking for? Can I do this with a flashlight?

Thanks for helping a novice along,

NikkiM

Forget about candling for the time being... it's too soon to see anything. Be patient.
Just keep the vermiculite moist and the temperature fairly stable, and the oveall humidity high, and resist the urge to handle the eggs.
Just because you observed the pair mating does not mean that all the eggs are guaranteed to be fertile.
In the meantime, you might benefit from a search of the archives of this forum on the subjects of candling, incubation, dented eggs, etc.
Good luck.
Stephanie

I forgot to add in my last post that the humidity is around 70%-74% in the incubator. There is also something else that I had not considered--there is a small fan in the incubator that is suppossed to keep the heat circulating in the incubator. Do you all think that this fan might be drying the eggs out? I have considered laying a small piece of saran wrap over the eggs to keep the air of of them--good idea or bad? I can't disconnect the fan--and it is pretty small.

Also--on closer inspection, 2 eggs are nice and undented, 2 are very dented (almost up to the 1/3 % someone was talking about)and 2 have very small indentions.

Thanks again,

NikkiM

Yes the fan can make the eggs and the vermiculite dry out more quickly. You're going to be battling that constantly if you don't cover the eggs I have 'still air' incubators, and still cover the eggs loosely: that way there is air exchange, but humidity is retained too.
I have the eggs (in vermiculite)in those 'Gladware' type containers that come with a lid. Recycled margarine tubs, coolwhip tubs, cottage cheese tubs, all would work fine.
Don't cover them tightly: cling wrap is not ideal because it can sag and come in contact with the eggs, and you can accidently jostle the eggs if you have to peel it off should it adhere to the container.
Stephanie

Personally, I would not bother with candling at this time. I agree with Stephf in that it is way too early. Besides, I am under the belief in disturbing the eggs as "little as possible". I Never liked those "moving" air incubators because you have to watch the humidity more often. But being that you have now moistened the vermiculite the way it should have been done, you don't have to watch it that often. For you, once every 2-3 days because of the fan. I watch mine once every 1 - 2 weeks. I make my own "still" air incubators. I have 5 incubators at this time & all but one is empty with only 1 egg. (accidental discovery) (how I wish all 5 incubators to be full - They only hold 12 eggs each.) But I normally put in 8 each - so if I'm clumsy and drop it, the most I can lose is 8. So far, haven't been that clumsy. Normally, I have 2-3 incubators going every year, but I have enough females to fill up all 5. I say that because I always find at least 12 unhatched, but broken eggs during the year and sometimes find hatchlings in the spring too. Anyway, I wouldn't lose sleep over the eggs even though I did with my first batch many moons ago. I just hope that they are all fertile & all hatch - If they do, you're going to have a blast!

Regarding the technique of “Candling of Eggs”.

Box Turtle eggs just laid will not provide any evidence of life by using the candling method.

However after eight to ten days, visual evidence is apparent in fertile eggs.
A small red to pink ring with tiny blood vessels will form know as a blastula.
Being able to view it; confirms a developing egg.

However there are certain precautions one must take to safely use this method for BOX
TURTLES. These eggs are much more fragile than bird eggs which this method was used for.. Also box turtle eggs should not be turned from their original position. If not put back in the same position; their respiratory functions are impaired and the embryo or developing blastula will die. Disturbing the egg is also risky as your hand temperature can cause a severe thermal increase on one side of the egg which shocks the developing turtle.

In addition heat from a small flashlight will kill a developing blastula in less than a minute.
But “ candling” can safely be done after ten days with the methods below.

You can use a Cool Candling lamp that has enough light to see through the egg with virtually NO HEAT. This can be done by either of two ways. Use a Brinsea Cool Egg- Lume developed for exotic birds. You can take the end of the cool light and put it directly on one side of the egg; without ever lifting or moving the egg. After ten days a clear egg would be infertile, red or pink alive and growing. The lamp is small and sold at exotic bird supply houses for about $ 38. There is another cheaper method using a tiny mag flashlight and one addition! Sporting goods stores and gun shops sell a snap on fiber optic tube that covers the end of the small flashlight. It comes in 90 degree angles which are ideal for our purpose. It concentrates the light through the fiber optic rod and emits a cool condensed light. The heat stays at the lightbulb end and the light is transmitted through the fiber optic rod as cool light. The 90 degree angle makes it a breeze to put the light close to the BOX TURTLE egg without moving it..or even touching it. You will see the same as described above. You can also check for further development and know precisely when the eggs are ready to hatch.The small fiber optic clip on; developed for seeing problems in gun bores is sold for about $3.00. it you are looking at hundreds of eggs the first one is better . If you have a small number to view the clip on version is an econmical choice.
Ric

Box Turtle eggs just laid will not provide any evidence of life by using the candling method.

However after eight to ten days, visual evidence is apparent in fertile eggs.
A small red to pink ring with tiny blood vessels will form know as a blastula.
Being able to view it; confirms a developing egg.
As the embryo develops the shape and form of the boxie will become more apparent.
If trouble is occurring within the egg; initially there will be scattered blood spots throughout and a deep black color will take over. For a variety of reasons the development has stopped; sometimes they are due to genetic flaws. Not the fault of the breeder.

However there are certain precautions one must take to safely use this method for BOX
TURTLES. These eggs are much more fragile than bird eggs which this method was used for.. Also box turtle eggs should not be turned from their original position. If not put back in the same position; their respiratory functions are impaired and the embryo or developing blastula will die. Disturbing the egg is also risky as your hand temperature can cause a severe thermal increase on one side of the egg which shocks the developing turtle.

In addition heat from a small flashlight will kill a developing blastula in less than a minute.
But “ candling” can safely be done after ten days with the methods below.

You can use a Cool Candling lamp that has enough light to see through the egg with virtually NO HEAT. This can be done by either of two ways. Use a Brinsea Cool Egg- Lume developed for exotic birds. You can take the end of the cool light and put it directly on one side of the egg; without ever lifting or moving the egg. After ten days a clear egg would be infertile, red or pink alive and growing. The lamp is small and sold at exotic bird supply houses for about $ 38. There is another cheaper method using a tiny mag flashlight and one addition! Sporting goods stores and gun shops sell a snap on fiber optic tube that covers the end of the small flashlight. It comes in 90 degree angles which are ideal for our purpose. It concentrates the light through the fiber optic rod and emits a cool condensed light. The heat stays at the lightbulb end and the light is transmitted through the fiber optic rod as cool light. The 90 degree angle makes it a breeze to put the light close to the BOX TURTLE egg without moving it..or even touching it. You will see the same as described above. You can also check for further development and know precisely when the eggs are ready to hatch.The small fiber optic clip on; developed for seeing problems in gun bores is sold for about $3.00. it you are looking at hundreds of eggs the first one is better . If you have a small number to view the clip on version is an econmical choice.
Ric... It's neat to watch the boxie developing inside the egg and then see and raise the results afterward....Like the one below.