Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I just finished viewing pics of baby balls that were supposed to be Yellow Bellies, they were for sale on the classifieds for $400 each , so I had to see what the seller had ... Sure enough NONE of them are YB's , just as I assumed , but I was willing to buy them all and breed them out if I liked what I seen , well I didn't they ALL were $20 imported normals!!!! The YB is one of the best investment morphs out there , but only if you get the real deal, you'll spend the next 20 years getting NOWHERE with animals that clearly are not YB's... My advice is to get them from people who know what they are doing , not some novice who thinks they've struck gold in a shipment of imported balls.... YB's do come in from Africa but NOT in the numbers that many people think, out of 2,000 balls you may find one YB in there if your lucky, this guy claimed to have 5 of them , which I knew sounded to good to be true, and I was right, he didn't have a single one picked out correctly!! The YB will end up being similiar to the Axanthics 5 years ago, back then everyone thought they had a Axanthic so they didn't bother buying one , well as you now know there is only something like 4 proven lines of Axanthics in the USA, ALL THE REST OF THEM proved out to be , you guessed it NORMALS!!!! So if you really think you have a YB , knock yourself out, in 3-5 years from now some of you wishful dreamers will be very disapointed with what you end up with , while the rest of us who put their $$ where their mouth is will be hatching out Ivories ,etc... I truely believe once the dust settles out on the YB morph they will do nothing but increase in value and be priced right along with all the other top co dom lines ... YB's do NOT look like normals once you see them in person it makes alot more sence , and they do stand out just as much as a Cinnamon Pastel does, you just have to KNOW what your looking at that's the whole problem, most that claim to have YB's don't really know how to pick out the required marker traits to justify having one!!!! Don't be foolish and spend $400-1500 on a normal ball, do like the rest of us did and spend the 4,000-7,000 on a real one , that's what I did, and that's what you'll need to do if you really want the gene, otherwise someone will be just dumping their $$ down the drain on a NORMAL ball because they didn't get it from someone who really has YB's!!!! I have seen about 10 ads in the last 2 months of NON YB's , if it looks questionable that's because it is, you can tell in about 5 seconds if the pic is of a YB or not, look at the post by NEXT WORLD on YB's if you still can't see it, come on people this is not rocket science, real YB's are a VISUAL morph , if you can't tell what your looking at then don't buy it , it's pretty simple !!!! Just my 2 cents , some people just get me worked up I guess!!! Anthony McCain-McCain's Reptiles.

Well nobody said you had to take a test to sell snakes on kingsnake, though maybe you should, lol. Yeah it is amazing that before people even know what they have, if they have the slightest notion that in their warped mind they have something unusual-BAM it's for sale as something which it is not.

You know that's what these forums are for, to ask questions to the people who know what they are dealing with...This lack of education or lack of basic caring to sell the correct animal or represent the correct animal hurts people that are legit and have REAL animals.......

Fireballs, Yellow Bellies, Axanthics, Womas, on and on and on...If you're not sure what something is, ask on the forums for an opinion at least before you post it for 5k...if makes everyone look bad.

Anthony,
Great post, it's about time someone starts pointing things like this out, there is not enough of it and usually the thread gets erased. I hope you are doing well and I hope to hear from you soon, it's been a while. Talk to you soon-Mike

Mike Brooks
TNS Reptiles
Long Island,NY
631-732-4233

I am trying to post snakes for opinions because I want to make sure I am charging a fair price plus am trying to decide which ones I will be keeping for myself. But in all fairness when I try to do that people are very sarcastic and jump down my throat. They try to make fun and say things like it's an elusive het for normal.
Actually if she was only het for normal that means she is carrying other genetics because a normal is homo for normal not het.
Everyone on this site was a novice at some point so they should try to remember back when they didn't know crap either.
At least I am a novice that wants to learn, wants to charge a fair price and dotes over her animals. But I guess no one really cares about that aspect of it.

That is what I'm talking about.This is what these forums are for.And yes there are jerks who will rip you a part but yes, everyone was a novice at some point in time. And the probably 2 people who actually have a real background in herpetology who regularly post on here are the ones who are too busy to reply most of the time. Nonetheless, the point is that questions are the backdrop to all of our educations, including mine. This snake thing is a learning process for all of us, keep up the questions please. It keeps this forum and things fresh, pay no mind to those who bust your butt. Good Luck with those

np

I also requested pics from that guy and he most certainly doesnt have any yellow bellies in his possession. Its not like any of them were even close.Anyway, I`m suppose to be getting a cb pair of yellow bellies from some guy in Iowa later this summer.LOL Stay in touch Anthony. Best wishes,Mark Petros BallPython777.com

Nice looking YB Mark and Mike as well, thanks for your posts! I will keep in touch with you guys, good luck to you guys this season!!! I just had to get this YB BS off my chest , people like that guy on the ad that are trying to profit from YB's when they don't even have them make me pace the floor out here!!!! Later , Anthony McCain-McCain's Reptiles.

Hello,

I guess this post means everyone is pretty much sitting on thier respective yellow bellies. I feel for ya when you have the real deal and have to put up with every Tom, Dick and Harry who say's he has one. But this has been going on in the reptile industry from the begining(people trying to make a fast buck off others hard work). The problem was everyone was marketing the hets when maybe emphasis should have been on the Ivory. I know the het Ivories are easily identifiable(or maybe not?) so maybe that was the better way to go than to just call them hets and sell them like any other hets. All other hets usually had to have a paper trail guaranteeing genetics back to the original breeder, but not with the het Ivories. Supposedly there were thousands out in the pet trade and you might just have one. Talk about lotto fever, everyone and his 2 uncles was looking at thier balls and most saw YELLOW BELLY. That tells me that het Ivories are going to be a tough sell for the foreseeable future. Oh well this problably sounds retarded but I'm allowed to be that way every now and then, especially when I can't cultivate my favorite dichotomous short day plants. Take care and be safe. Ciao. Andrew Potts

I was also interested in buying the possible Yellow bellies. He sent me some pics. They were not YBs, But he was actually kind enough to Email me back after and apologize for the ad , that he hadnt known any better.. Which is more then most people would do..

Hi Anthony,
I couldnt have said it better! Thats the whole reason i started the Hunters Guide, to help people not get ripped off. I have decided to clean up the Guide and publish it as a book, so i will be working on it a lot over the next few weeks!

Here it is again for those who missed it...

THE HUNTERS GIUDE TO THE MORPHS. "HET IVORIES"

Welcome to the Hunters Guide...
Here you will find all the details you will need to seek out the elusive Het Ivory (Yellow Belly)!

Q. What is a Het Ivory

Incomplete Dominant: (Breed to a normal = 50% Het Ivories x 50% Normals)(Breed to a Het Ivory = 25% Ivories, 50% Het Ivories, 25% normals)

Answer...
A Het Ivory in my opinion is an underrated mutation. There are so many possibilities with them at this time. It is a mystery why when crossed with what seemed to be other minor genetic mutations they make the most spectacular snakes (ie. ebonies, super stripes etc) I think these guys need a lot more selective breeding to see their full potential. The list below will help you be able to identify a YB and see exactly what its characteristics are.

1. First off, a Het Ivory (Yellow Belly) received its second name due to the unusually high amount of yellow pigment on the SIDES of the belly, not on the actual stomach. Most YBs (i will use this name for the rest of the guide) have an extreme amount of yellow all over the body for that matter. The RED arrows show where the Yellow Belly name came from. Also most YBs have a high amount of blushing on their backs as shown with the BLUE arrows.

2. Flames? All YBs have what I term Flames (I think most other people call them that too?) On the YB the flames start on the stomach and go up most of the sides, as shown with the BLUE circles. Also YBs have a faded mark on the head usually in a circle shape as shown with the RED circle.

3. The stomach! Everyone's least favorite part. Why is the stomach so confusing? Don't ask me I didn't make them lol. The stomach on the YB is also the most important part (YB do need to have all the other traits though). The stomach can be very variable and that's what makes it tough, but they all share a VERY similar trait. That is the granite like speckling that runs all the way down the sides of the stomach as shown with the RED circle. Some are very extreme and some a lightly speckled but they must have it. Also like I stated before this is where you will see the FLAMES that i was talking about and how they start on the stomach as depicted with the BLUE circle. The snake below happens to be a FANTASTIC example. I will show you a few variations below.

Variation 1-
this snake is showing an amazing speckling pattern down its sides( RED circle ), you can also see the FLAMES i am talking about. Also note the faded spot on the head (BLUE circle ) This guy is a wild caught YB. can you believe it?

Variation 2-
This snake is showing less of the speckling, but has very nice Flames.

Variation 3-
This snake has very weak speckling but has amazing flames and color. He is a proven line.

There are many more variations, but they all follow the same rules.

1.Granite speckling on stomach
2. Bright Flames, that start on the stomach
3. High Yellow Body pigment, concentrated on the lower sides
4. Faded head marking

I will try to get more pictures of the different variations of the proven lines for you all and post them here.

Hope this helps
The Guide

Jon Dvoretz
Next World Exotics
Link To the Guide

Hi all,
sorry i forgot to change the above post's title. I have reposted the hunters guide in the above post for everyone.
Thanks
Jon

They have been a great help for me. Also thanks for answering all my questions. Your site is really cool too.
Sonia