Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Would someone please fill in the blanks on White Ball morphs? There are: Ivories, Snow, Pearl, and Leucistic. Also, what are the morphs for the het from of all of these?

Leucistic (blue eyed):
Lemon Yellow
Mojave

Leucistic (black eyed):
Fireball

Ivory:
Yellow bellies?

Snow:
Axanthic X Albino T-

Am I missing anything? While I'm at it, are there any other Black Balls besides the Super Cinny?

Pearl:
Woma

If you are going to include the Snow, then you must also include the Albino. (Same patterns, but a little more distinguishable in the Albino.) And if you include the patterned Albino, then you must also include the patterned Piebald.

Personally, I only count three (3) animals in the genetic "white snake" category -- Ivory, Blue-Eyed Leucistic, and Black-Eyed Leucistic. The Pearl is still up in the air until the exact genetics are worked out. (Has this been accomplished yet?)

Then again...I guess we should define "white snake".

How much white makes a "white snake"? After all, the Ivory and a few BELs I've seen show a little color/pattern...

Chris
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"I'm funny? I'm funny how? Funny like a clown? I amuse you? I make you laugh? I'm here to f***in' amuse you?" -- Tommy DeVito

Leucistic (blue eyed):
Lemon Yellow
Mojave
Platinum *
Lesser Platty *
Lesser Platty normal sib *
Phantom *

Leucistic (black eyed):
Fireball

Ivory:
Yellow bellies?

Snow:
Axanthic X Albino T-

Thanks for additional info. Now for the $64k question... with so many differnet hets to make a Blue eyed Leucistic, do you think the prices will drop significantly in a few years? I don't see why they couldn't get down to albino prices in the next 5 years.

Will they ever compete in price with the Albino? No. In every market, you need a control product -- a product with which to compare newer products. The control product in the Ball Python market is the Albino. Each and every morph is priced comparatively to the Albino. For instance, the Albino is currently priced at approximately $2000. If (when) the Albino were to drop into the $1000 range, we would see a comparative drop in other morphs as well. The Pastel would be around $400 and the Ghost around $500. The Piebald would also drop a few thousand dollars, but still remain proportionally higher than the Albino. Therefore, the many "white snake" hets should always be priced higher than the Albino...even if they only cost $1000 each.

Of course, this is only my opinion...

Chris
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1.0 Ball Python
1.1 Chinese Milksnakes
1.0 Whitewater River Snake
0.1 Purple Phase Gorilla Frog
2.3 Sugar Newts

Albino and Pied morphs are naturally occurring, Blue and Black eyed Leucistics are not. Blue-eyed Leucies are most likely recessive (none proved yet) Blackeyed Leucies are co-dominant - (proved with this year's breedings) Any desirable morph of Ball Python will always keep a higher price than that of a naturally occurring one.

I could see where that might be true initially, but not long term. The huge majority of morphs have been bred artificially, so I'm not sure why a completely artificial one would be worth more. I think it has more to do with supply and demand. I think if the market gets swamped with blue eyed leucies and hets in a few years the prices would drop dramatically, perhaps even more so than say a naturally occuring lavender albino (just using it as an example, I have no idea if a lavender is natural or not).

I think one thing that the Leucistics have going for them is that their hets are visually valuable as well, unlike a het albino or pied.

You mentioned the lesser normal sibling with the hets, they haven't produced any leucistics have they? Short of a normal producing a leucistic or a leucistic producing a normal I would not suspect it to be recessive.

Check Ralph's records Randy,I think you will find that there is a normal sib in the 'soup'.

Can you narrow it down by year and preferably also clutch? I'm just not seeing it.

It wouldn't be the first time I've been surprised but I don't expect any leucistics to produce any normals or any leucistics to be produced if both parents aren't at least phantoms (i.e. no leucistics with any normal parents).

I'm thinking the super phantom is just the most extreme pigmented of the leucistics and that lesser, mojave, phantom (and possibly butter) are all mutations of the same gene. They may be different mutations of that common gene (alleles) but I still bet they get mixed up to where it's hard to tell them apart in a few years. There also appear to be other genes involved like the one that turns a lesser into a platy and perhaps something similar in the butter.

Can someone post pictures of lemon yellow? I think this is the only one of the white snake creaters I have not yet seen.

Thanks in advance,
Louie

You can find a picture of one, I think, at Cuttingedgeherp. The reason I say "I think" is because the picture that is labeled as a High Yellow Lemon is named a Butterball. I'm not sure if that is a mistake or the same morph with two names.
Cutting Edge Leucistics

What does a lemon yellow go for? Sorry I should've asked the first time around. How common are they?

Thanks,
Louie

I have no idea. I've never seen one for sale.

I think I saw the Butter Balls going for about the same price as Lessers. 35k? 30k? Somewhere around there. A while back I THINK I saw them in the upper 40ks, but I could be wrong.

No, they aren't that common. I've seen them for sale once or twice. Both time by Prehistoric Pets.

Correct me if i'm wrong.

Ryan