Reptile & Amphibian Forums

i keep and breed green tree pythons.i have kept(successfully)many species of frogs,but never poison arrow/darts.id like to start a collection,and if i am successful,id like a rather large,varied display.my only concern,is their small size and their ability to hide.i have in my head an idea of housing many animals,one animal per very small enclosure.and stacking the boxes.this way,id be able to locate and seperate all species and display them in a way that doesnt allow them to hide much.my first question is,how much room do they need?i take it by their small size,that they dont require much space,but how little is too little?id like to display single animals in totally clear,acrilic boxes,no larger than say a shoe box.is this ok?id put a small water dish and a live moss floor.and id stack these in a way that i am able to see my whole collection.my second question is about their toxins.from what i have read,they lack the toxins in captivity,due to not having their natural food source(ants,spiders,millapeds,and other toxic insects) if one where to feed their frogs a varied, wild caught diet of the above mentioned insects,do they develop toxins in captivity?i have kept many venomous reptiles and find their dangerous nature the main attraction for keeping them.if i where to keep poison arrows,id also like to have them "hot"if i were able to.thanks

A good rule of thumb is 5 gallons per frog, but you have to take into consideration the type of frog, floor space, and how aboreal the frog species is.

Poison dart frogs are still poisonous to some extent in captivity. I have touched some of my frogs on occasion (when they stubbornly refuse to move out of my way) and have had no ill effects. Others have gotten a pretty strong reaction to licking any liquid that comes from the frogs (check frognet archives). I'm pretty confident that if you (or you kid or your dog) ate a frog, there would be some sort of issues.

There is new research into the toxins of poison dart frogs. I'd google it to find more info.
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Josh Willard
www.joshsfrogs.com

Please if your going to keep dart frogs give them the terrarium they deserve, I have no idea why someone would house any animal in an "American" style terrarium with only the bare essentials for survival. Its the equivalent to the chaining of dancing bears in Russia. Snake keeps are notorious for this and it seem acceptable between them. Please if your considering keeping darts or any animal for that matter type to duplicate its natural habitat as close as possible along with plenty of room.

Would you consider keeping a dog in a closet for its whole life?

This is not so much gear toward you but anyone who is think of getting any type of animal.

thanks for the responce.a 5 gallon tank is about what i had in mind for a single frog.id like to supply him with a terrarium(moss ect)but i just dont want to overdo it to the extent that he is hard to find.

Something like a cork background or pressed cocoas fiber mats with a couple of small bromeliads on it, as well as Java moss and some Pilea or Peperomia plants on the bottom wouldn't hide your frogs entirely from view, but would give them a sense of security. Depending upon the species, many darts are shy and easily stressed. Actually, the more hide spots you can give them, the more open they will become. The plants are also necessary for the upkeep of a recycling biological system that most of us do with our darts. We don't clean enclosures except to trim plants, spray poop off foliage, mist, wipe off the glass and sump out the drainage area or partially change water in a circulating false-bottom/water way falls system. It's a semi-biological recycling system. Maybe once every five years, we take down and re-do a tank. And finally, the darts look better against an attempt at a "rainforest" background, rather than a barren cube with just a little moss.

Re: Poisons. I never handle my darts for their own sake, not mine, so whether they retain toxins in captivity or not does not concern me. There is some anectdotal evidence that some of them may still excrete some toxins when stressed, but generally, they are less toxic than a fire bellied toad when captive bred. You can read a chapter on Dendrobatid toxins in Schmidt and Henkel's POISON FROGS, Professional Breeders series. If you like the idea of keeping "Hot Frogs," you may have to fake it a bit, because no way does feeding wild temperate zone insects seem to maintain this quality.

It sounds like a rather fun project for a display case thing. They are far more interesting in either mated pairs or groups, though--depending upon the specie. That's when you can observe something other than just a single colorful frog sitting around, attempting to hide or waiting to eat. Otherwise, in my view, they might as well be made of plastic.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus
2 D. azureus
4 P vittatus