Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have gotten a headach the last few days upon entering one of my favorite forums. I would like to let you know I am going to keep my political views to myself because nobody cares and I ask everyone does the same in this thread so we can fill up some space replacing the political debates.

I will use this space to ask a few questions I have been curious about.

1. Has there been any DNA work on Crotalus cerastes and their subspecies which are all almost identical?

2. Here is an open question asking for any information on Pilocarpine people are willing to give.

3. Naja atra...why are most the ones advertised not really Naja atra?

4. Is there anyone breeding Naja naja? I never see any babies available.

5. What is your favorite hook to use? Yes, I mean you the reader.

6. How does the venom in a funnel web spider work?

7. Why are so many different snakes called palm vipers?

Some of these questions are just for fun, but some I really want to know so please answer as many as you wish and share details please.

This may seem like a pointless post but I really want to know more about this stuff eventhough I may have some light hearted wording.

I originally intended only to discuss my ideas about Elapid evolution from rear fanged "colubrids" in the taxonomy forum here when I signed up and was going to leave my political and religious
views on forums I belong to that specialize in those topics.

However when I came here and saw the POLITICIANS pushing for one hot or general herp ban after another, after another in the posts I felt I had to "come on strong" politically myself. Sorry if it offended anyone.

However staying on the spacific topic now, PLEASE be careful in what you advocate where permit systems are concerned. THEY CAN BECOME BANS if made to favor experience sources (state licenced zoos, animal parks or aquariums) who's administrators have anti private herp keeping agendas.

Here in California we have one of the STUPIDEST permit systems yet devised. You can literally keep the worst killer hot in this country the Western Diamondback Rattlesnake (Crotalus atrox) with nothing but a common sport fishing license and NO EXPERIENCE with such an animal but a Detramental animal permit for a much safer hot like the American Copperhead requires 1000 hours of experience with them at a state licensed zoo, animal park or aquarium where the anti private herp agendas are at their most prominant (other than with the "animal rights" groups that don't even believe in state licensed zoos, animal parks or aquariums of course.) The other requirement for a detramental or welfare animal permit in California seems to be that you must be superstar perv who names his private zoo for the land of perpetual childhood in Peter Pan and has a Whacko Jacko stacko Federal Reserve Notes to wave in front of Fish and Game officials.

I still feel that the best permit system would be one where entrants into the hobby would be able to keep at least the non lethal rear fangs and maybe some of the less "hot" genuine hots as well under a "no experience" permit (Actually It would not be no experience at all, The keeper should have have to prove some experience with nonvenomous snakes and non envenomating venomous snakes (like garter, water, racer, whip, hognose and ringnecked snakes) and lizards in order to show to show he knows how to properly house herps to prevent escapes and bites) with an attaced record dealing with such "offenses" as escapes, bites requiring antivenom, flimsy caging offenses and the like that would be similar to a driving record. Each year that a private keeper's record is "spotless" in these areas would count as experience for increasing the number and toxicity of species he would be allowed to keep and his permit renewal could be upgraded accordingly until he finally reaches the "top dogs" like Taipans and Mambas and the like. (Actually I think most GENUINELY experienced and responsible "privates" would not want to keep the "top dogs" those are usually a two or three man job to mantain safely.)

Ummmm... was that post in the wrong thread or something? I couldn't manage to see any actual reply to any of the questions that were asked... but anyways.

I picked up a "cheap" hook at hamburg one time, and it ended up being my favorite hook ever. It says "Grip One" on the handle, and it used to have a little sticker on it that said who made it, but it fell off!! It's an in-between size hook, probably about 32 inches or so long, great for mid sized snakes. I'd love to get a 40 inch and a small hook from them, but I can't remember who made it!! I think it was "Best exotics" or something like that. It has a red hook on it... if this sounds familiar to anyone, let me know where I can get another one.
I've managed to flip over tons of big rocks that would have(and have) just pulled the hook part right from the handle. It's definately managed to take my abuse.
-Will

The hook I use is a cannibalized coathanger for pants, the type that has a sticky cardboard tube as the crossbeam where the pants hang, with the wire ends being stuck in the cardboard and the hanging hook is wire doubled back on itself. I removed the cardboard and tweaked it into shape with a pair of pliers.
Of course, the only thing I use it for, is to pick up a loop or two of a lickle bitty harmless Cal king. Sure as he** wouldn't trust it for the critters mentioned here...
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0.1 chickens (Condor)
0.2 dog mutts (half ownership, only mine when they misbehave, Lucy & Amy)
0.1 Halflinger horse (Crissy)
0.1 Normal phase California Kingsnake (Sophia)
1.1 parents
Still searching for 1.0 WC human

As Gavin, stated nobody really cares about one another's political views...they really don't. Although its important to discuss them from time to time, it is evident that there isn't enough maturity (and perhaps intellect to some degree) on this forum to discuss them in an intelligent and rational manner and as you said, should be saved for specific sites that deal with these kinds of issues. Gavin just wanted information about his specific questions, and have a little fun with it, and I don't blame him for wanting to try to change topics...its been "topiced" to death. You obviously have very strong convictions and I admire you for that, and wish we had more people with that kind of fight and determination to protect our rights, but there is a right place and a wrong place to put them on the table. We have enough problems keeping the venomoid debates off this forum. All this does is divide our herp community even more which will only do far more harm than good. I love debating about this subject, and would be happy to discuss it somewhere else, but this is probably not the right forum to do it. Perhaps we need a "HOT TOPIC DEBATE" FORUM...that could be very interesting and entertaining!

Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center
Lake Forest, IL

>>I originally intended only to discuss my ideas about Elapid evolution from rear fanged "colubrids" in the taxonomy forum here when I signed up and was going to leave my political and religious
>>views on forums I belong to that specialize in those topics.
>>
>>However when I came here and saw the POLITICIANS pushing for one hot or general herp ban after another, after another in the posts I felt I had to "come on strong" politically myself. Sorry if it offended anyone.
>>
>>However staying on the spacific topic now, PLEASE be careful in what you advocate where permit systems are concerned. THEY CAN BECOME BANS if made to favor experience sources (state licenced zoos, animal parks or aquariums) who's administrators have anti private herp keeping agendas.
>>
>>Here in California we have one of the STUPIDEST permit systems yet devised. You can literally keep the worst killer hot in this country the Western Diamondback Rattlesnake (Crotalus atrox) with nothing but a common sport fishing license and NO EXPERIENCE with such an animal but a Detramental animal permit for a much safer hot like the American Copperhead requires 1000 hours of experience with them at a state licensed zoo, animal park or aquarium where the anti private herp agendas are at their most prominant (other than with the "animal rights" groups that don't even believe in state licensed zoos, animal parks or aquariums of course.) The other requirement for a detramental or welfare animal permit in California seems to be that you must be superstar perv who names his private zoo for the land of perpetual childhood in Peter Pan and has a Whacko Jacko stacko Federal Reserve Notes to wave in front of Fish and Game officials.
>>
>>I still feel that the best permit system would be one where entrants into the hobby would be able to keep at least the non lethal rear fangs and maybe some of the less "hot" genuine hots as well under a "no experience" permit (Actually It would not be no experience at all, The keeper should have have to prove some experience with nonvenomous snakes and non envenomating venomous snakes (like garter, water, racer, whip, hognose and ringnecked snakes) and lizards in order to show to show he knows how to properly house herps to prevent escapes and bites) with an attaced record dealing with such "offenses" as escapes, bites requiring antivenom, flimsy caging offenses and the like that would be similar to a driving record. Each year that a private keeper's record is "spotless" in these areas would count as experience for increasing the number and toxicity of species he would be allowed to keep and his permit renewal could be upgraded accordingly until he finally reaches the "top dogs" like Taipans and Mambas and the like. (Actually I think most GENUINELY experienced and responsible "privates" would not want to keep the "top dogs" those are usually a two or three man job to mantain safely.)
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

The "herp laws and cities" forum, conveniently located a few spots above the venomous forum now.
-Will

Thanks for the fun question...the reason I really come here.

Mitch at Diamond Reptile Breeders had some N. naja for sale. I think he's the only one.

I use the Midwest Standard Hook as my mainstay in the field and favor their cage hook in my Hot room.

The other question are good ones that I would be interested in hearing about.

Cheers!

Al

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Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but foot prints. Not a law, just a good idea.

I like the midwest standard hook as well. So light, so durable. But I think my favorite is my little pocket hook. Always good in slight times of need when a little snake goes behind something or you just want a second hook to balance a small to mid sized snake on the move.

Mr. Carmichael, I like that you understand why I posted that but I didn't see any answers lol : ) I am guessing you like the midwest field hook...am I right?

But the questions I really was hoping someone would answer were on Crotalus cerastes DNA, how the venom of a funnel web spider works (because I have heard some wild stuff), and how Pilocarpine works, who is using it in studies, good, bads, expense, etc.

Open back up and fill up a little more space...I will be back around 10 pm to read.