Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello,

I am setting pitfall traps around prairie dog holes in order to gain an understanding of what kinds of herps utilize these burrows. I'm doing this for several reasons; personal interest, acedemic fullfillment of a class (wildlife management)-students must propose a study and gain their own data in this class, and to gain venomous experience wich i can use on future job applications. I will mark individual herps useing ventral scale clips with snakes and toe clips with amphibians. One snake, Crotalus viridis viridis, is a species I expect to capture. I plan to tube them with PVC piping. I would like to know what diameter tubes I should use with neonates and with adults. I'm gratefull for any educated advice.

Thank you
-Andrew Kopp

I highly suggest you DO NOT use PVC. You need to see the snake's head 100% of the time. If you chose the wrong sized tube, the snake will turn around, leaving the head right at the hand.

What size? Every single snake is a little different. You can order a set of snake tubes that have a variety of sizes. You can also get clear plastic tubes from a good local fish store. TO MY KNOWLEDGE (and please someone correct me if I'm wrong), these are made of the same material and grade as snake tubes you would get from say http://www.tongs.com . The only drawback to this is the size you can get. Tubes from the fish store are made for under gravel filters. They only go so big. You may need to actually buy a set so you can get the larger ones.

Tubing snakes is one of the more difficult things to do. A lot of focus needs to go into this task, often leaving you vulerable to making mistakes. I suggest practicing on harmless snakes first. Also, learn from someone who knows how to do it.

Do not take this lightly. If you are not willing or able to do it correctly, please do not do it at all. Does your school know that a project may leave you dealing with venomous snakes? This may violate rules at your school. Snake bites like these could leave you permanently disabled or with amputations. Hospital bills can easily run well over $10,000. Please talk seriously about this project to whom ever is in charge.

My overall recomendation is to find someone experienced to go with. People into rattlers LOVE to go into the field. It really shouldn't be that hard. It may just take a little digging to find someone. Otherwise, please do not take on this task alone without experience. If this is the case, I suggest buying a snake hook and just removing rattlers from the holes and not dealing with them at all.

Finally, I wonder how many adult snakes you'll actually catch. I can see digging a hole big enough to prevent neonates from escaping. However, I could see adults getting out of even pretty big holes.

Feel free to write me back.

Thanks,
Dave Smith

Thank you for the advice Smith. I do use a snake hook with my actual job wich is collecting data on redbellies. I figured I would pratice a few times on bullsnakes and try to get a feel for it. I'm well aware of what a snake bite can do and how much it can cost. I for one am a little nervous about the thoughts of my arm dissolving.... if at the time I feel that it is to great a risk to tube the rattlesnake i will not attempt it, i'll simply state in my methods that I didn't scale clip rattlesnakes due to the risk.

As for my school knowing about it, they do not. But the school does employ me with the redbelly job and i've hooked rattlesnakes in the field, so they do "know" i deal with hots occansionally. I'm going to take that class (wildlife management) next year. Other students have told me about the studies you do in that class, one person examined gut contents of mallards. I'm personnally interested in herps (obviously) and figured this little project would be enjoyable for me. From the data i would obtain I believe I could figure out the populations of different species in the town.

As for the actual pit I'm using 5-gallon paint buckets. Wether or not these will hold bullsnakes or rattlesnakes remains to be seen.

And yes there is a reptile zoo in my area that may or may not teach me how to tube. I suppose simply asking wouldn't hurt.

Hmm tubes aren't as much as i thought they would be.

Also have you tubed rattlesnakes. If you have could you tell me what steps you took in doing so-it would give me an idea of how to properly do it. Right now i figured i would pin the snakes head and slide the tube over it. Once the head and good portion of the neck were tubed i would simply push the snake forward till i was ready to do a ventral scale clip. Tell me what you think of this. Thanks.

Well, I could show you a lot more than I could tell you on an online forum, unfortunately. I'll try to give you some advice.

-Find someone to teach you. To be safe, you really need to be with someone experienced until you learn what you are doing. Tubing a bull is a great start and how I got my practice (well, false water cobra). However, it's different when it's got fangs and venom.

-Tubing them while pinning the head won't work. They will just pull back when you release the head.

-Keep them in the bucket (well, see my next note...). They will try to go up the sides. When they do, put the tube JUST in front off them, but don't push it over them. Your best bet is to use the tube as their "escape route". Next thing you do is push the tube down over their body (light enough not to hurt, but firm enough not to let them escape). While you are lightly pinning them, firmly grab the mid body, right where the tube and body meet. If you feel it start to slip, just put the tube down and step away.

-I realized that the bucket will be burried in the ground. Bending all the way over and under the ground to pick up the tubed snake will be a little unreasonable. It is more dangerous and harder, but you may find that you'll need to tube on open ground.

-Stay out of strike range. It is easy to get distracted when tubing and step a little too close.

I've been tubing for the last three years. Sometimes it's easy and other times it is not. I had a cape cobra really give me a run for my money, but I finally got it. The more times you mess up with the same snake, the harder it will become. These guys catch on pretty quickly.

Now, scientifically, I have a concern with your methods. You'll be artifically selecting for any snake that can't escape from the bucket. In other words, only animals that fall for the trick are going to be included in the study. I agree that this is probably the only way to feasibly do this study, but you need to emphasize this in your discussion. Saying, for example, that species A is more likely to use these burrows than species B, based on evidence collected in the field, is misleading. At the end of that sentence, you'd have to include a disclaimer along the lines of, "of the animals caught in the traps" or something. Good sentence flow is gone by now for me. I've been at work for way too long. Just advising you to be cautious with your interpretation.

Good luck!!

Dave

Well good news got a herpetologist to teach me how to tube. He'll teach me how to tube in the field. He even lent me tongs and possibly tubes (if he doesn't need them for another project)-whata nice guy.

As for scientific methods I'm well aware that you have to question your data. One great example is the positive correlation between ice cream sales and shark attacks. The herpetologist said that bullsnakes and rattlers would most likely get out of the traps. Stuff like toads and tiger salamanders i believe would trap nicely.

Thank you for all the advice.