Reptile & Amphibian Forums

NEWS-COURIER (Athens, Alabama) 16 June 05 Snake Man is arrested (Tashia Lovell)
It's not the usual sight in Limestone County and it may be the first cobra ever confiscated in this county. But if county authorities have anything to do with it -- it will be last.
Limestone County resident Turner Davis Roberts, also known as "Snake Man," was arrested and charged Wednesday with the possession of a non-indigenous venomous reptile in violation of Alabama regulation after authorities discovered a rear-fanged water cobra in his home.
The Limestone County Sheriff's Department received a tip that Roberts had the snake in his home on Nuclear Plant Road. The snake is said to be native to Asia and parts of Africa.
Capt. Johnny Johnson with the Wildlife Freshwater Fisheries Division of the State Department of Conservation and Natural Resources, said it is illegal to have such a snake due to public safety and the lack on anti-venom. He said, as far as he knows, there is no anti-venom in Alabama to treat a bite from this snake.
He estimates that a person would die within hours from a bite by the snake without treatment.
Johnson said other snakes were found in the Roberts home, but the cobra was the only one in violation of state law.
Roberts kept the snakes in aquariums.
Johnson said that Roberts reported he got the snake from a resident in Cullman.
Johnson said that there is no jail time associated with the snake possession, but Roberts could receive a fine of up to $500.
Roberts' court date is set for Aug. 5.
Authorities said there are two possible options left for the snake -- it could be put down or taken to a zoo.
Snake Man is arrested

DECATUR DAILY (Alabama) 16 June 05 'Snake Man' loses his cobra (Holly Hollman)
Photo at URL: Athens animal control officer Lt. Ron Ultz grabs hold of a cobra that Limestone and state wildlife officials confiscated from an Athens home. Possession of non-indigenous poisonous snakes is illegal because of anti-venom unavailability. (Holly Hollman)
Athens: "I know the son of a gun's poisonous, and he's not from around here," Sheriff Mike Blakely said Wednesday about his latest prisoner.
Blakely's officers and wildlife officials confiscated a 4- to 5-foot-long water cobra from an Athens man's home. Possessing a poisonous snake that is not native to Alabama is a misdemeanor.
Blakely said someone called the sheriff's office about a resident on Nuclear Plant Road having the snake. Officers served a search warrant Wednesday afternoon and found three rattlesnakes, more than 20 boa constrictors and the rear fanged water cobra, investigator Randy King said.
Capt. Johnny Johnson with Alabama Wildlife and Freshwater Fisheries said his office has charged Turner Davis "T.D." Roberts, 61, with possession of a non-indigenous venomous reptile. Johnson said water cobras are native to Asia and parts of Africa.
"They spread out at the head when they're mad, but they are not related to the cobras most people think about," Johnson said.
When Athens police animal control officer Lt. Ron Ultz coaxed the water cobra out of its wooden box in the Sheriff's Department parking lot, the snake did expand its head.
It did not strike at the grips Ultz used.
Johnson said Roberts kept the water cobra in a wooden box inside a glass aquarium. His other snakes also were in aquariums. It is not illegal for Roberts to have the rattlesnakes and boa constrictors.
"He says he just likes snakes," Johnson said.
Three years ago, Alabama made it illegal to own non-native venomous snakes because it is a public safety risk, Johnson said. Roberts bought the water cobra 11 years ago from a Cullman man, Johnson said.
"I don't know that we have any anti-venom for a cobra bite anywhere in the state," Johnson said. "You could die within hours of getting bit without it."
Sgt. Travis Gray, the wildlife officer assigned to Limestone County, said the department called Roberts about the new law three years ago.
"We told him to get rid of it (the cobra)," Gray said.
Blakely said Roberts is infamous in Limestone County.
"T.D. is known as 'Snake Man' and for doing things like making a lamp out of his wife's amputated leg," Blakely said. "T.D. has been in jail for all kinds of charges, but this is the first time for having a cobra, that I know of."
According to Sheriff's Department records, Limestone has arrested Roberts in the past for drug trafficking and assault.
Johnson said Roberts won't face jail time for having the water cobra. He said the maximum fine he will face is $500. His court date will be Aug. 5.
Johnson said the department will either euthanize the water cobra or see if a zoo permitted to have such snakes will take it.
'Snake Man' loses his cobra

As usual the press write a confusing, inaccurate article.

I wrote them to see if they will make a correct, I won't be holding my breath..

Hello:

Some of your facts are confusing. False Water Cobras are found in South America. They are rear-fanged with toxic venom but no effective way to deliver it. Some swelling and pain occurs went bitten but no real systemic problems usually occur. The Water Cobra, found in Africa is a Front Fanged Elapid, with no SPECIFIC antivenom but South African Polyvalent antivenom is said to be effective. Don't quote Fish & Wild Life when is comes to Non-native species, they typically have no clue.

Sincerely,

Al Coritz
Northeastern Antivenom Bank
www.neab.org
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Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but foot prints. Not a law, just a good idea.

I must say that what you did is something that not very many of us to. Whether or not they will change their information will be one thing, but atleast you gave it a whirl. I think that more of us should do the same! Being that in this forum, we have been more concerned with strict legislation than what I have seen in any other forum, perhaps we should try to start a mailing list or something. Get people informed about what's going on and then try to correct the mistakes. When the news press starts to see that we are being serious, perhaps they may start to "clean up their act" when putting out news articles. This is only a small step, but perhaps if it is implemented it might take us a long way. I dont see why there isn't something that we could get started with the individuals right here in this forum!

Anyways, just thought I would say that I appreciate what you did on behalf of everyone here. At least someone is doing something!

Best Wishes,
Chris

P.s. Your website address is www.neaVb.org,

Thanks guys...

The lack of people willing to put up a fight or even correct a mistake (thanks Chris)really annoys me. So many people on this forum and others just piss & whine but never act in a meaningful way. I'm this way with National politics too. Don't complain unless you voiced your opinion to your representatives, not that it will change things but it could. How many time have you written them this year? I bet not many. I'm a frequent emailer to mine, I at least let them know where I stand and I'm watching them, so to speak.

In many ways we enjoy "chewing" on each other because of differing views, rather than attack the root causes(external or internal) of the "problems" with the hobby.

We as a "family" should make a whole bunch of noise and support the keepers in NC but most of the keepers tend to be inert. This is just the way it is: 20% of the people do 80% of the work in any volunteer organization, I know I was president of a large group of "hobbiests" in the past.

I did make a call for us to organize some months ago, I got emails from 5 other people willing to help, not enough, so I bagged it. I won't lead a charge unless I have many troops to lead. Much to do and time is short.

Sincerely,

Al Coritz
www.neavb.org

Juv. CB05 1.0.0 Squam

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Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but foot prints. Not a law, just a good idea.

I'm writing in response to your snake story about the "Snake Man" getting arrested for possession of a Water Cobra. There are numerous inaccuracies in the story that need clarification.

First, you claim that the Water Cobra that was confiscated was rear-fanged. If this is indeed the case, the snake in question is native to South America, not Asia or Africa. Second, if the snake was rear fanged, the snake was NOT an actual cobra at all, but a rear-fanged colubrid (Hydrodynastes gigas). These snakes are technically venomous, but as they present no real danger (due to an ineffective venom delivery system and miniscule venom yield) one could hardly consider them "dangerously venomous".

While Alabama law is what Alabama law is, the authorities' claim that these snakes are illegal due to "unavailability of anti-venom" is ridiculous. These snakes, even when they do bite, do not produce systemic symptoms to the victim. Therefore, there is no anti-venom because quite frankly, it isn't necessary. The authorities' claim to the contrary only highlights the ignorance of people that speak to issues they know nothing about.

In the interest of journalistic objectivity, I ask that you print a correction to your story to more accurately reflect the situation, and any dangers involved therein. Thank you.

-Kris Haas

Nicely done Kris!!

If the author gets a few hundred emails like this the better the chance they might do something.

We have to treat this crap like we treat those JERKS (you know what I mean) in Sweetwater, TX, Just bury them in complaints.

Cheers!

Al
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Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but foot prints. Not a law, just a good idea.

IM interested so I can ride in on the complaint train.

Chris

Chris...

I was refering to the people that organize, support, and participate in the rattlesnake round-up. Earlier we bombarded the Sweetwater, TX website.

That's what I was refering to...

Al
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Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but foot prints. Not a law, just a good idea.

Do they even make antivenin for false water cobras?
I don't beleive there has ever been a fatality attributed to them.

I have to say that article just left me in awe. I wasn't a fan of that guys site (if it's the right 'snakemaster' I'm thinking of) but I have to say I'm on his side for this one, especially if it actually is just a false water cobra, not actually a water cobra. Don't get me wrong, a law is a law, but it definately sounds like they're trying to really play this one up. I can picture the cop out side of the house after they took it from him...

Dem sunsa guns is poisinus, we on't take kinley ta dat. Why'd yous want a poisinus snake in yer ol' house. Only good snakes a dead snake...

Sorry. Didn't mean to make any assumptions... but come on. Good work Phobos. Hopefully they won't be too proud and will admit their mistake.
-Will

So www.neaVb.org is your site?? Have you had any takers yet? Seems like a good idea but will be hard to gain trust. IS it going to be a Nation wide anti-venom bank for just for the NE States?

Thanks,
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Chris
Contact
Captive Bred Herps

0.0.2 Gila Monsters
1.2 KSB "Normal"
1.2 KSB "Albino Het/snow"
1.1 KSB "Anery"
2.2 Rubber boas
3.3 Solomon Island G. Boa
1.2 BCC Born 5-30
1.0 Leopard Gecko
1.0 Pacman Frog

Yes, have quite a few people ready to join as soon as we get the final blessing of the FDA. They sign off on the import permit, so they are the last step for clearence.

Once this one is up and running we hope to have other banks in other parts of the country...check out the site for yourself.

www.neavb.org

Cheers!

Al

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Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but foot prints. Not a law, just a good idea.

They do not make antivenin for these snakes but a bite from a large adult is equivilant to an atrox. Pers "Contributions in Herpetology" Edited by Peter D. Strimple and Jane L.
Strimple 1992 In this publication Loius Porras examines the venom toxicity of the FWC.
Tim Cole

here is my reply to this writer.

To whom it may concern:

I recently read a story published by your paper, I would like to take this moment to clarify some parts of the story as it was VERY misleading.
The snake in question is not a member of the Cobra family and is not an elapid. There is no antivenin in Alabama for this snake because it does not require the use of antivenin in the event of a bite. Though it is considered venomous, in the technical sense, it is EXTREMELY unlikely that a bite would result in anything more than a mild irritation unless one were allergic, in that case you would be in just as much danger from fire ants, bees, wasps, and any other stinging or biting insect that you can think of.
Although I can see the "attention grabbing" nature that a story like this has for your paper, please be a responsible journalist and research your information before publishing, it will make you a better journalist and prevent "yellow journalism" from causing problems for people and scientists who study reptiles.

Sincerely

Brett Daniels
Senior Biologist
Palm Springs Biological Services
(760)485-0888
lateralis@aol.com

I'm going to try convincing this author to write a new story. I think it is bunk that a false water cobra was confiscated and treated like a highly deadly snake.

We don't know if the information came from the author's own research or info from the police. It sounds like a little of both. If we can convince them that this was BS (as I feel), perhaps they will write a new article challenging the views of the state.

Dave

Sounds a bit like "passing the buck", but here it goes....

Thank you for sharing your knowledge in this matter. I got most of my information on this story from authorities and have no reason to not believe what they tell me. This is not a case of –making something up to make a story shine. The story will be clarified with your statements tomorrow.

Thanks again,
Tashia Lovell

Not surprisingly, she sent the exactly same responce to me earlier today when I wrote her. I wonder if she'll actually post an update?? I'm not holding my breath.
-Chance
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Chance Duncan
www.rivervalleyexotics.com

The reporter from the second story Holly Holliman wrote me back and said she was using the info available from F& W. She will also write a follow up story to clarify the story.

Cheers!

Al
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Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but foot prints. Not a law, just a good idea.

Thank you for your concern and sharing your knowledge in this matter. I do not try to be misleading to make a story sound better. Most of my information is from officials or authorities and I have no reason to not trust what they say in the matter. I was told that the snake was not like the Cobra we all think of when we think of such a snake.

Tashia Lovell

Well that certainly clears things up for the average Alabamian!
I lived on a small island offshore of Mobile for 5 or 6 years where I used to see Indigos, they are probably gone now, and I suggested she do a story on habitat loss.

Cheers
Brett

NEWS-COURIER (Athens, Alabama) 17 June 05 Confiscated snake frozen (Sonny Turner)
A cobra confiscated from the home of a Limestone County man Wednesday has been frozen, state game officials said Thursday.
"We froze it," said Capt. Johnny Johnson with the State Department of Conservation and Natural Resources. "We'll hold it for evidence once the case comes up in court Aug. 5."
Johnson said authorities were afraid the snake might bite someone and because they could not find a zoo in this area that wanted it, decided it was best to "put it down."
Turner "Snake Man" Roberts, 61, of Nuclear Plant Road, Athens, was arrested and charged Wednesday afternoon with possessing the poisonous snake which is not native to this country.
"He had a lot of snakes inside his house including rattlesnakes and boas, but they were not in violation of state law. The reason he was arrested and the cobra confiscated is because that snake is not native to this country and that is illegal. You just can't possess a poisonous snake like that," said Johnson.
According to Sheriff's Department records, Roberts has been arrested in the past for drug trafficking and assault.
Roberts told investigators that he got the cobra several years ago at flea market in Cullman.
"It's evident he loves snakes -- he's got a bunch of them in his house," said Johnson. "But this one (cobra) is illegal."
Roberts is charged with possession of a non-indigenous venomous reptile in violation of Alabama law after authorities discovered the rear-fanged water cobra in a cage in his home.
Several people responded to the story in The News-Courier Thursday saying the snake is not dangerous.
"The snake in question is not a member of the cobra family and is not an elapid," said Brett Daniels, senior biologist with Palm Springs Biological Services in Florida. "There is no antivenin in Alabama for this snake because it does not require the use of antivenin in the event of a bite. Though it is considered venomous, in the technical sense, it is extremely unlikely that a bite would result in anything more than a mild irritation unless one were allergic, in that case you would be in just as much danger from fire ants, bees, wasps and any other stinging or biting insect that you can think of."
Charlie Duncan of River Valley Exotics said the snake is a "pet water cobra" and that there is no anti-venom available because it is not considered dangerous.
"Only a person severely sensitive (i.e. allergic) to the proteins found in the snake's saliva and venom secretions would be adversely affected," Duncan said. "These are not true cobras and are probably not even covered under the law being used to harass this man."
The Limestone County Sheriff's Department received a tip that Roberts had the snake in his home. The snake is said to be native to Asia and parts of Africa, but Duncan says the snake is found in South America and not Asia.
Roberts could receive a fine of up to $500, if convicted in court.

{Wes' Newt Note: No sign of any of the forum's letters yet ... but I wonder if they were not taken into consideration anyway ... it seems that this paper did approach a local expert to determine just how dangerous the killed snake was. I find the tone of this item significantly different from yesterdays .... but then, that's just me. respectfully, Wes
Confiscated snake frozen

I wote the reporter again...Keep them comming troups!!

Hi Sonny:

Nice article Thanks for setting the record straight. I would like to note that freezing the snake the way they did amounted to "Animal Cruelty" The practice has been banned by AZA* Zoo's across the country. The reason why they did this is the SLOW freezing process producing ice crystals in the cell causing severe pain. They should be prosecuted for the animal abuse.

*American Zoo & Aquarium Association

Sincerely,

Al Coritz
www.neavb.org
Member AZA
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Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but foot prints. Not a law, just a good idea.

It looks like they did try to use some of the information I provided, even if it was taken slightly out of context in part of it. I only called it a "pet water cobra" when addressing the title of the story I was writing in responce to. Below is a copy of what I e-mailed the story's author.

"I am writing concerning the recent story on the gentleman who was arrested in Limestone County because of his pet "water cobra." It sounds to me like he had a False Water Cobra, Hydrodynastes gigas, a rear-fanged mildly venomous snake found in South America - not Asia. This snake has no anti-venom available for it because it is not considered dangerous. Only a person severely sensitive (i.e. allergic) to the proteins found in the snake's saliva and venom secretions would be adversely affected. The story you printed is obviously full of inaccuracies and needs to be corrected. Here are two separate sources with information on False Water Cobras: http://www.venomherp.com/fwc.html , http://www.snakemuseum.com/cobra.htm . A google search would reveal many more. As you can see, these are not true cobras and are probably not even covered under the law being used to harass this man. Please correct the misinformation in your story with a reprint and forward the above information to the authorities in your area.
-Chance Duncan"

At least we have to give them credit for trying to take information and advice from "local experts" to correct some of the misinformation in the story. However, I would actually have preferred that they validate the information I or anyone else gave them before using it. I could've said that snake was the most venomous thing on the planet, and I wouldn't have been surprised if they used it. I provided the links though to try to give myself a little backing at least. Maybe they looked at them, who knows. But hey, even though they horrendously tortored the poor snake to death by freezing it, for once I feel the press was actually willing to listen. Now maybe if we respond in the same manner about the freezing incident, we can bring some attention to their obvious mistreatment of that animal.
-Chance
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Chance Duncan
www.rivervalleyexotics.com

their local authorities and for the article writer? I am unable to comment on the "water cobra", due to my lack of experience with hots and not knowing the difference one way or the other if it hadn't been for you guys (thanks for the indirect lesson by the way!). I can however, comment on the torture that animal went through. So if you guys wouldnt mind, I would like to add to the attack on this one.

Thanks,

Chris

Here ya go mate...have a go!

Newspaper Story

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Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but foot prints. Not a law, just a good idea.

thanks, that'll work. I say it's about time I chime in on this a little.

Thanks and best wishes,

Chris

I was sort of shocked to see my name mentioned, good plug for my company though, if I actually lived in Florida!LOL
I would like to talk to folks about a national gathering, I think its time to do it and I think WE CAN DO IT, I suspect that it could have some really positive results.
I have spoken to one or two about it, the passion is there, lets focus it.

Cheers
Brett
"The reward of a thing well done is to have done it"
Ralph Waldo Emerson

I think if we come together nationally, we can start doing some damage (good damage that is). I think we can do it if we try. The more we continue to nail these people when they screw up, the better chance we have of being heard and being taken more seriously.

LET'S DO IT!!

Chris

Hey, congrats on the ink! BTW- when did you move?.....LOL. I didn't realize you found that Trimorph in FL, I think that's a range extention..........hehe.

If I had known she was actually going to qoute me I would have clarified my locale. Oh well, maybe someone in Fl. has a similiar name for their company.LOL. Yeah that trimorph was WAY lost!
Cheers
Brett
p.S. went out by Joshua Tree last night, lots of winders and owls (hunting the road by moonlight?)but not much else.
CHeers
Brett