Reptile & Amphibian Forums

What is a good size tank for a breeding pair of Blue Tongues?
And what is a reccomended substrate?
Are there any other skinks that are easy to breed?

Ok - This is where I save James a heap more typing!

Use this link - It's the link to a previous msg that James has posted covering Anything you really need to know!

http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=63381,63619

Luke.

Better yet, don't house them together. But if you do, the enclosure must be VERY spacious and provide them with lots of places to hide and explore without having to be right next to each other all the time. That being said, the only realistic, practical enclosure would be an outdoor pen.
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Edward
Carpe diem

I'd have to agree with not keeping them together. Breeding efforts seem much easier when the skinks are only introduced to each other for breeding purposes, I've heard. Plus, you don't have to worry about your skinks injuring each other if they are housed together all the time.

That last part didn't make much sense. I meant you don't have to worry about injuries if they are housed separately. There, much better.

I forgor that your best bet isnt too house themm together! Thanks for reminding me! What is a good sized enclosure for jus one blue tongues skink! And are there any other skinks that are relatively easy to breed?

thanks again
Cody

The minimum size encl. should be 3' by 2', though I personally go with 4' by 2'. By the way, the best substrate, in my opinion, is newspaper. Other good ones are aspen bedding and cypress mulch, but if you use mulch it will have to be treated for mites. I'm not familiar with other easily-bred skinks, but hopefully someone else will answer that for you.

One of the advantages of keeping Blue-tongued Skinks is that they have very simple caging requirements. They need a surprisingly small amount of cage space for as large a lizard that they are. The average adult Blue-tongue can be kept adequately in a 40-gallon glass aquarium with a screen top. While this standard reptile terrarium does the basic job, I have found them to possess a few flaws in their design.

The first problem is the all glass design. Most reptiles like to have some kind of refuge or cover to retreat to when they feel threatened. It is when they are completely covered and out of site from would-be predators that they feel the safest and most secure. Reptiles do not understand the concept of glass, and why they cannot get through it. They also do not understand that predators cannot come through the glass to eat them. As a result many reptiles take flight, head-on into the glass, at the first sign of a perceived threat or danger. It is needless to say that this can be very detrimental to the reptile's snout and general well being. These threats can be anything that moves in the reptile's field of vision; including you, your family and friends, and your dog or cat. Fortunately, most Blue-tongued Skinks are not easily frightened, but they still feel a need for security that is hard to provide with a glass tank.

I have also seen blue-tongues that walk up the corner of a glass tank about half way, putting their bodies into an L shape. This is an example of a skink that simply wants out, for whatever the reason, but can not figure out why it is not getting through. Being extremely persistent animals, these skinks will sometimes stay in this unnatural position for days, weeks, or even months, often causing permanent deformities to their spines. I also do not like the all-glass tanks because they are unnecessarily heavy, very easy to damage, hard to fasten lights and accessories to, and awkward when you need access to maintain your skink. If you have ever placed your tank on a dresser, at a height (about 4 ft.) that makes a great display, then you know what I am talking about!

Custom Enclosures:
I have found an option to the glass tank that is comparable in price, more functional, and visually more pleasing. Since I keep and breed a large amount of Blue-tongues, space is a valuable commodity. As a result I house my skink separately in 3'L x 16"D x 15"H stackable melamine enclosures. The melamine is an easy to clean surface that also provides good insulation from extreme temperatures. For easy access, I use 1/4 inch sliding glass bypass doors, on plastic track, for the front of the cage. Most of the Blue-tongued Skinks available to hobbyists in the U.S. prefer a relatively dry environment, so it is important to provide them with plenty of ventilation. The back walls of my enclosures are made from 1/4-inch pegboard, which provides my skinks with adequate ventilation while still helping to maintain constant temperatures. Light fixtures are easily mounted to the ceiling of the enclosure.
Note: If you are keeping just one or two skinks, I recommend the same type of enclosure, but if space permits, it may be a good idea to go with a slightly larger set-up. An enclosure that is 4'L x 2'D x 20"H makes a great display that gives your skink a lot of extra space, which is always a big plus!

Multiple Skinks
People working with numerous Blue-tongued Skinks usually face space consideration challenges. Some people have successfully maintained blue-tongues in rack systems similar to those used by snake breeders. While this may be effective for larger scale breeding operations, I prefer to give my skinks a more spacious enclosure with the benefit of lights. My melamine enclosures can be used to house large amounts of blue-tongues because they are front opening and stackable. The glass fronts also provide me with the advantage of being able to observe and monitor my skinks, and their environments, when needed.

Communal Housing
While I can't say that I personally recommend it, some people choose to house their Blue-tongued skinks in pairs or groups. Unfortunately, many people mistakenly feel that their skink will grow to be lonely or bored without the company of other skinks. The fact is that almost all reptile species are, for the most part, solitary animals. There are a few exceptions, but blue-tongues are not one of them.

Blue-tongued Skinks do best when kept alone, and in actuality, a skink would view another skink simply as competition for food, water, basking sights, and shelter. Most people see two skinks all curled up together in a shelter or basking area and assume that they are enjoying each others company. This is a very common misconception. The skinks are actually piled up together because that one spot happens to be the best spot for whatever they are looking for at that specific time, such as warmth, coolness, or shelter. It is important to realize that blue-tongues do not like, need, want, or require each other's company, and it can actually be extremely stressful for them to be confined together in a situation where they cannot get away from each other as they would be able to in the wild. This is especially true for males. In the animal kingdom the world is run by the rule "survival of the fittest," with breeding rights and the best territories going to the biggest, strongest, and the most aggressive males. These territories are often defended fiercely, and the presence of another male is usually perceived as an immediate threat, requiring the intruder to either flee at once or fight. Of course the current occupant also has the same option to flee if he feels that he is no match for the new challenger. Males of many reptile species will often run off females as well as other males with exception being taken during the breeding season. The same is often true with females running off other females and males. In captivity this opportunity to flee is not available, and it often results in unwanted combat by the animal that would be less likely to fight if given the chance to flee. I have seen a lot of skinks with serious injuries, including: broken or missing limbs, fractured jaws, and missing tails, all due to cage-mate specific aggression. If fights do not occur, it is common for the sub-dominant animal to go to a corner and assume a submissive posture, doing nothing to threaten the status of the dominant animal. This means staying right there, and not eating, drinking or basking. A blue-tongue in this situation will usually end up dying, of what is often referred to as psychological domination, if it is not removed and given its own environment. Blue-tongues just do not appreciate the "company”. They function on very basic survival instincts that they have been programmed with over millions of years, and fortunately for them, the human emotion of loneliness is not one of them.

Still there are many people who chose to communally house their blue-tongues, thinking that it is the only way that their skinks will breed for them. In actuality, the skinks usually either fight or become sexually complacent to each other's presence. In my opinion, it is just not worth it and it is, more often than not, counterproductive. For those people who are fortunate enough to live in the mild climates of southern California or Florida, the use of LARGE outdoor zoo style pit enclosures could be an exception to the rule, offering the skinks the ever important option to flee when confronted by a would be aggressor. There are reports of some of the more cold tolerant species that have been kept and bred in this fashion all year around. The more tropical species may need to be brought indoors for part of the year, or possibly given access to supplemental heat. Outdoor pits should allow the skinks access to sun and shade with numerous shelters and visual barriers. The skinks should also be able to dig down, with precautions being taken to prevent them from digging out. You will want to make sure that the pit is secure in that it is both escape proof, and impenetrable to other animals such as dogs, cats, racoons, and birds of prey.

Cage Furnishings
Blue-tongues like to hide on occasion, so it is important to provide them with some sort of means to accomplish this. While three solid walls and roof help, additional shelter is recommended. I like to use hide logs because the skinks have the opportunity to bask on them when they want to warm up, or hide in them when they want to feel secure or sleep. Aside from their water bowl, they will not need any other furnishings.

Substrate
There are many different opinions on the subject of substrate. I have personally tried many of them myself, and I have found that newspaper, Care-fresh, and artificial-turf have all proven to be effective substrates for me. Cypress mulch is also frequently used and recommended by many keepers. Aspen Bedding has been used by many hobbyists, but it contains long sharp slivers can work their way into the skinks nostrils, eyes, or vent, causing serious injury. It is also hard to keep it out of the skinks food, and can cause very serious problems when ingested. I also avoid orchid bark for the same reasons and because of the possibility of respiratory and skin problems as a result from the red dust that it produces. Note: Never use cedar chips due to the toxic oils that they secrete.

Blue-tongues will often burrow in their substrate if given the opportunity (especially when kept in a glass tank). They do this simply out of convenience, in an effort to get under something and out of sight from potential dangers. Blue-tongues are not burrowing lizards by nature, rather they are opportunistic shelter seekers that do not need a substrate to burrow in if given appropriate hides and an enclosure that provides them with some sense of security.

Sand is also not recommended, mainly because it is very hard to maintain. Blue-tongues can be very messy lizards, causing the sand to have a very unpleasant odor in a relatively short period of time, and it is just not practical to replace the sand as often as you will need to. It is often pointed out to me that sand is often encountered in the wild by many blue-tongue species. However, that does not change the fact that it can get into your skinks eyes, nose, and food, unnecessary causing potential health risks to your skink. The reason for this is that in the wild the skink is not forced to be in constant contact with the sand 24 hours a day, for its entire life, as it would be in captivity. Let me try to explain. Many of the lizards from the south-western United Stated come in close contact with many different Cactus species. However, cactus is not the best choice of cage décor for these lizards in captivity. The point is, just because something is encountered in the wild, does not automatically make it beneficial in captivity. In captivity we should try to duplicate the beneficial aspects of the wild while decreasing the dangerous and rigorous aspects that the wild also presents.

Hi James, I plan on making melamine enclosures for my BTS as well, but I have a few questions that I hope you or others can answer: what is the thickness of the melamine boards that you use? How many enclosures do you stack on top of each other? Do you ever have problems with the sides bulging out or the tops caving in from too much weight? How much does each enclosure roughly weigh?

Do you use wood-based pegboard? If so, do you treat it, so that it is water-proof? Do the sliding glass doors have locks or anything that assists in keeping the glass from being shifted by the skinks? Sorry for all the questions but I'm getting real close to my decision on what I will get so I can start construction of my first enclosure.

Hi James, I plan on making melamine enclosures for my BTS as rich: well, but I have a few questions that I hope you or others can answer: what is the thickness of the melamine boards that you use?

James: I recommend the 3/4 inch It is less likely to split when you screw into it. (I also strongly recomend predrilling holes before you screw into them.

Rich: How many enclosures do you stack on top of each other?

James: as many as you like. after 5 high, I can't reach or see.

rich: Do you ever have problems with the sides bulging out or the tops caving in from too much weight?

James: No. The way that they are built, prevents that. The top sits on top of the sides, and if it is over 3 ft wide, I use a 3 inch lip on the top and bottom front edges (these are also where I attach (with liquid nails) the 1/4 inch plastic glass tracking for the sliding Bypass doors.

rich: How much does each enclosure roughly weigh?

James: That depends on how big you go. Not really sure .

Rich: Do you use wood-based pegboard? If so, do you treat it, so that it is water-proof?

James: yes. I use the 1/4 inch pegboare that is painted white on one side. It is water resistant, but not water proof. Because it has a finished surface, it cleans well. You can also use the regular unpainted pegboard, as it too has a finished smooth side.

Rich: Do the sliding glass doors have locks or anything that assists in keeping the glass from being shifted by the skinks?

James: Mine do not, but I have had skinks that figured out how to open them. However, most do not. Sliding galss door locks for display cases are always a nice touch, and add extra security.

Thanks for the answers James.

I was just wondering about one more thing. I went to Lowe's and I couldn't really figure out how to make a sliding glass door, even with the help of Lowe's employees. Could you give me some instructions on this matter?

I get the 1/4 inch plastic track for for 3/16 or 1/4 inch thick sliding glass bybass doors at local glass shops. It can be very hard to find, but keep asking, and you will find it eventually.
E-mail me, and I will send you a pic that you can post for me! tiliquaman@aol.com

I get the 1/4 inch plastic track for for 3/16 or 1/4 inch thick sliding glass bybass doors at local glass shops. It can be very hard to find, but keep asking, and you will find it eventually.
E-mail me, and I will send you a pic that you can post for me! tiliquaman@aol.com

Perhaps you can have someone else post them.

Thank you , you provided me with a good amount of info!!!!