Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Perhaps some can shed some experienced insight or opinion on their their assessment of the dusky pygmy on the left in this picture. The one on the right is a normal phase south florida pygmy and I found them last week on the same road. Now the left one lacks dark pigment but really is not light colored like some hypo snakes, however most hypos common in the sellers market are brightly colored animals to start with, and this species is typically dark to begin with, so I can only think its a hypo of sorts?

Dan

It has been my experience that the intensity of the color varies. Both look normal to me. In fact, the one on the left seems to be more common than the one on the right.

~~Greg~~
Venomous Snakes of Florida

That is interesting, however I have encountered over a hundred of them in the last few years, and most if not all appear like the one on the right. And I have examined many wild caught collections at wholesalers and never seen a light phase or pale phase example like the one on the left. Perhaps they are more common in central Florida but from what I have found and from what is in the photos of the specimens I find down here, I cannot agree with you on that. I do have several pictures of many of them, and they all look very dusky in color. Do you happen to have any pictures of any like the one on the left to support that claim? I have shown it to several Florida snake experts that agree that it lacks the dark pigment which is typical of dusky pigs. And the intensity of the dark pigment of pigs does vary, however specimens from north florida seem to be more dusky/darker in color and lack the intense red pigment, but none of the dozens I have encountered in south florida lack the dark pigment like the one on the left. I did find one that was sorta lighter but was nothing like this specimen. I would be interested in some photos for comparison. I will check that link you provided to see if there are any pics like the lighter colored one to the left. Thanks for you input.

A friend of mine bred two WC Duskies (found in the same area) together in '03 & had one that was slightly odd coloured. It wouldn't feed & eventually died but he "pickled" it. He bred the same animals together in '04 & produced another one ( as well as typical wild-types). Instead of having the normal black blotching, the spots were a reddish-brown colour. It also appeared to have a little more colour but that may be due to the lack of black. I have seen some Anerys so I thought it was kinda cool. I saw it recently & the animal's overlall appearance has darkened & doesn't look as odd but the dark pigment does darken w/ age on Hypos. so whose to say.? He'll raise up the group & try to find an Anery. (as I know there are wild populations of them) to plug in to the equation eventually. Hypos. & Anerys are the most common occurring morphs found in the wild as they really only look slightly different. The only real way to prove out the trait is to breed it

The snake certainly is neat looking, but lets break down some of the details on a basic level. Does the snake have any black on it at all? I cant really tell from the pic, is that brown in the darker areas? It seems to share the same red color, and the pattern is certainly quite muted and blurred.
What stands out to me is that is seems to have less or no BLUE to it, rather than black. Definitely an atypical snake, but I really dont think "HYPO" is really the pertinent term here.
Im just going off the picture though, so my perception of colors could be off. If the term hypo is intended to mean hypomelanistic here, I would argue it should be hypocyanistic, which is a word I JUST made up!!! Heeheeheee.
What's the belly look like?
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Tom
TCJ Herps
"The more people I meet, the more I like my snakes"

I dont claim to be familiar with every variation in Duskies that exists out there.
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Tom
TCJ Herps
"The more people I meet, the more I like my snakes"

From what I have seen the majority of Pygmies offered to the trade come from the Everglades and those are mostly like the ones on the right. The Paler one I have seen examples of more commonly from slash pine areas (higher ground). That one on the left is a pit paler than what I'm used to but, I would not call it a Hypo.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

IMO,the snake on the left, is hypo, compared to the one on the right.PERIOD.
I think there are various degrees of hypomelanisim. Whatever floats your boat.LOL!

Randal Berry

Yea, we are already starting out with a species that is known for being dark colored/black/dusky, therefore it is much lighter in many aspects. And there are not many black or dark colored snakes in the market termed as hypos for a comparison, however reddish, yellows, browns, and other colored snakes are very easily to determine as hypo because even the smallest reduction in pigment makes them look light colored or somewhat bleached, whereas a dark colored snake such as a dusky bleached would look like this. In any case, it is neat and has not even shed yet. I am looking forward to what it will look like after it sheds. Often a freshly shed pig looks much brighter, so perhaps I can take some close shots of it and make a better analysis?

Dan

get some good closeups thru the glass.
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Tom
TCJ Herps
"The more people I meet, the more I like my snakes"

Hey Dan,
Interesting snake, I recall seeing something like that down around the Tamiami Trail as a kid. Just about where University Trailer Park is, close by the Seminole Casino. This was LONG time ago in an area that has since been developed but they were living in some riprap next to a canal. As I recall they had a purple-ish hue and LOTS of red as adults.
Certainly one to play around with, and if you could locate a similiar mate you could have an interesting morph there.
Regards
Brett