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is underfeeding safe

aLbInO_BuDdY Jun 18, 2005 11:28 PM

I was wondering how long our albino burm can go between feedings without affecting his health? we don't have the space/money for a 15 footer, the smaller the better. I love our burm to death and don't want to have to get rid of him just because of his size.

Replies (18)

goini04 Jun 18, 2005 11:57 PM

Sounds like a corn snake would be your better bet.

jasonmattes Jun 19, 2005 02:14 AM

Yea..gonna have to agree here.
Underfeeding to keep a snake small is terrible. If you cant house an adult why did you get one?

RuHigh Jun 19, 2005 10:08 AM

Not to be rude but WHY IN THE WORLD DID YOU GET A BURM IF YOU DON"T WANT A BIG SNAKE?

First, it is very clear from your posts you should give that burm to someone who can care for it, the RIGHT way. Then you need to find out what is wrong with you. If you really think it is OK to underfeed any animal for ANY reason, there must be something wrong with you. SEE A DR. and get help.

I'm just curious, do you like big cats?

Burmaboy Jun 19, 2005 10:32 AM

RuHigh...
You catch on quick...the big cats question...I like it!
Is it possible it's our old friend, under a new incarnation?
To reiterate what all have posted on this thread...
Why would you get a burm, if you did'nt want a big snake?
In a year, you're possibly looking at 8 ft.
If you think underfeeding is ok, I want you to try not eating enough for a few months.Starve yourself.
If it's ok enough for you, it's ok for a burm.

AlteredMind99 Jun 19, 2005 01:07 PM

Big cats! Lol!!!

Anyway....when you got a burm you obviously new how big it was going to get. It is very irresponsible to have purchased one knowing that you dont have the money or space to care for it. you need to relocate that burm to someone who does have the space and money to care for it. Underfeeding a snake to keep it small is cruel...it is literally like having a child and starving them and depriving them of the proper nutrition they need to grow. If you did this to a human, you would be in jail. If you do it to a snake, the consequences should be the same.

Either way, dont underfeed it to keep it small, all you will end up with is a puny sick snake that will probably die very young. Find him a new home.
-----
0.1 Bearded dragon
0.1 mexican Black kingsnake
1.1 Leopard Gecko's
0.0.1 Tokay Gecko
1.0 Blue Tongue Skink
0.0.1 Reverse Okeetee Corn
0.1 Anerythristic Corn
0.0.1 Red Tegu
0.1 Bullmastiff
4.1 Cats

Ben_Renick Jun 19, 2005 04:42 PM

Alright, well this is for both of your post, the one about the snake being dehydrated and this one. I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but you will deffidently need to take these posts into high consideration, if you don't, you will have a dead snake on your hands, and if you love him/her as much as you say you do, you should have no problem taking some advice to keep the snake in health.
First off, if you can't afford to house the snake properly, sell it, or give it to someone that can properly take care of it, because underfeeding is NOT an option. I'm going to take a guess and say you have the snake in a glass tank with a screen lid expecting to keep it at 5'. It's not going to happen that way, the snake is going to grow out of the aquarium and most likely get nose rub, along with a severe upper respitory problem from lack of humidity. You need to learn the husbandry for taking care of a Burmese Python, and do this ASAP.

Owning a Burmese Python:
- Budget your money to where you CAN afford to house and feed the snake.
- Buy Temperature and Humidity Gauges to monitor the cage
- Get rid of any glass aquarium you are using, and start building or looking for a new cage (You will need 8' long x 30" wide x 18" high AT LEAST)
-- www.monster-cages.com (deffidently cheapest way to go excluding building your own)
-- Vision Cages
-- I wouldn't recommend building one of your own as in all it takes is the wrong type of wood to kill the snake.
- If you don't have the room to house the snake, sell it or give it to someone that can properly take care of it, because there is no non-growing burmese python, it will grow no matter what, unless it's dead.

Okay, the reason your snake isn't shedding completely is because your humidity is too low, change your cage to something that holds in humidity better, such as a plastics cage from Monster-Cages or a Vision Cage. For now, because I'm sure you wont have the money to do so right now, because you have basically said so. Get a rubbermaid container that will fit in the cage, cut a hole so the snake can get inside, fill it full of spagnum moss. Spray it down daily with warm water. (I'm sure you can find this moss at any local pet store, they even sell it at petco. If you can't find it here are 2 links:

http://www.petco.com/product_info.asp?familyid=10248&sku=9631600275&tab=5&dept_id=2549&c1=2549&c2=&c3=&ct1=Substrate&ct2=&ct3=

http://www.petsmart.com/global/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524441777972&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302030075&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=2534374302023694&bmUID=1119216937639

I cannot stress how important it is that you give this snake the home it deserves with or without you. Here is a Burmese Python Care Sheet that you should look over.

http://www.newenglandreptile.com/CareBurm.html

If you feel that you can house, take care of, feed, maintain everything that this care sheet says, then follow it and actually take care of this pet you have purchased, because it is not a toy, it's a living animal, that will be bigger than you one day. If you can't meet the requirments and you can't take care of this snake, then sell it or put it up for adoption. I'm sure there would be someone in this forum that would be very happy to take this snake off your hands and put it back in perfect health. I hope this helps you!
~Ben
1.0 Green Anaconda
0.1 Green x Yellow Anaconda
0.1 Amazon Tree Boa
1.0 Super Tiger Reticulated Python

Burmaboy Jun 19, 2005 05:01 PM

I beg to differ on a few things in the last post by Ben.
First off. I have kept many high humidity loving snakes in glass aquariums. Using screen lids for tops.
The difference is, I knew how to keep humidity in. I had humidity raising devices in place. If you know what you're doing, a glass aquarium can work just fine.
They are not evil things.
Secondly...why would'nt you recommend building his enclosure?
In building materials, you have so few types of wood to choose from, how could he pick the wrong wood?
The only wrong wood I could see, is using tongue and groove cedar.
Most building wood is pine.Most cages are built from plywood.
Again, most plywoods are pine.
You're supposed to seal the wood.
I use oak to make mine, only because I finish them as cabinet quality. And the difference between oak and pine 3/4" ply is not all that much lately.
However...this original poster still needs to know his husbandry techniques.
I doubt if he does, so a glass aquarium, or monster cage...or a custom built cage, no matter what would is not going to make one bit of difference.
If he builds a zoo quality enclosure, what difference will it make if he does'nt practice proper husbandry?
I was led to believe, one should learn about burms, or retics, or any animal first. The make an educated purchase.
Not buy the animal, and then learn as you go, or for that matter, make up info.
All the other posts had it right. Put your burm up for adoption...before it's big enough to kill you.

Ben_Renick Jun 19, 2005 08:13 PM

I know, but to me it is so much easier to maintain proper humidity without a screen cage. I'm sorry for bashing on screen cages, but they are harder to maintain humidity for a lot of people (such as me) and they can cause nose rub very easy for larger snakes. As far as building a cage, I'm no construction worker, I can barely build a bird house without messing it up, but I did look up stuff on building my own cage before I got larger set-ups. There are a lot of ways of messing it up, or doing something wrong to where the wood will rot or the toxins off the wood can hurt the snake. I'm sure if you coated it with something, or used melemine it would be no problem. But I was told by someone that there are toxins in certain types of wood that can hurt the snake, if I'm wrong, I'm sorry. I'm deffidently not one for building anything or knowing very much about wood types, that's why I bought my cages and they are made from plastics. But as far as screen cages go for large snakes, you might be able to maintain humidity easy, but it doesn't prevent noserub any easier. I'm sorry for bashing on screen cages, but I'm not a big fan of them. It's just an opinion though, I've just seen too many large snakes with nose rub and flaking sheds in screen cages.

Burmaboy Jun 19, 2005 09:23 PM

I will say, all my aquariums for my snakes are large!
75's and 125's.
They dont spend their life in there, just until they reach a certain size. Between 6-8 ft.
They do however spend their life in there if they max out at 6-8ft. Such as my redtail, my dumeril's, and Jungle Carpet.
Building a cage is easy. It's like building a box...with modifications.
And they all need to be sealed.
Give it a shot sometime. Make a plan, and go crazy!
Once the bug bites you, you'll never stop.

make_urself Jun 22, 2005 03:57 PM

Building your own cage definately saves some money. Wood is rather cheap however good glass that wont shatter in pieces will cost a pretty penny. Lemme see if I can attach some pics of the project me and my dad put together...not too fancy but it came out rather nice and my snakes seems to like it...
Image
-----
-=Eddie=-
0.0.2 Burmese pythons. Boomer, Casper(albino)
0.0.1 Gold Tegu. Jacko
3.1.0 Dogs. Sam (boxer), Gizmo (yorkie), snowball(mix),Dexter (Jack R.)
0.0.5 angel fish (don't last long enough to name )

make_urself Jun 22, 2005 04:00 PM

and just to clear things up...there are actually four lights that i run....two day two night all on timers...humidity stays good even with mesh tops (it one layer of very soft mesh inside the cage and one layer of tough mesh facing the outside...that way snakes wont get rub and cant push out) and the small doors on the sides are for food (so i dont have to open up the glass).
-----
-=Eddie=-
0.0.2 Burmese pythons. Boomer, Casper(albino)
0.0.1 Gold Tegu. Jacko
3.1.0 Dogs. Sam (boxer), Gizmo (yorkie), snowball(mix),Dexter (Jack R.)
0.0.5 angel fish (don't last long enough to name )

burmaboy Jun 22, 2005 04:08 PM

great job on the cage. i use 1/4" acrylic for my doors, but i frame and hinge them.
i also use radiant heat panels. they do great job of heating, and they allow you to stack cages.
excue my typing...i've a cast on my typing hand

aLbInO_BuDdY Jun 22, 2005 04:12 PM

thanks Ben, I"ll use your advice =)

bps516 Jun 20, 2005 06:56 AM

Good catch there. And do you notice since you said that there are no replies from him? (just like last time). Well, gotta get going to my Herp 101 class. Today we are studying Mountain Gorillas. (we already finished the "big cat" portion of the class)
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Bryan, Atlanta GA

1-0-0 Ball Python - Apep
1-1-0 Rats... no wait... ROTTEN Little Cats - Ra, Bastet
0-1-0 Little Angelic Kitten - Isis
1-0-0 Horse... whoops... BIG Golden Retriever - Jake
0-1-0 Wife
2-0-0 Kids

goini04 Jun 20, 2005 09:34 AM

np

aLbInO_BuDdY Jun 22, 2005 04:07 PM

Ok, so underfeeding was definately the wrong word to use, all i was asking was basically what is the least SAFEST amount to feed him. I never planned on starving him at all, these are our first snakes and I'm just trying to find out as much as I can about them. I love them to death and would never do anything to hurt them! The reason we took them was because a guy we know had them and couldn't find anyone to take them so he was going to kill them. I didn't know how big they could get and we'll adapt to it as we have to, we love these guys, there our first pets and we are very responsible with them. I just didn't know if they adapted to the feeding schedule we set up for them or what, so now after everyone being so damn rude, I know that that is not possible. I NEVER MEANT STARVING THEM so relax everyone. SO if you have any HELPFUL information on feeding I would love to hear it, ie: what is the longest they can go between feedings and still remain healthy. NOT: "CAN I STARVE THEM". so ya thanx so much for your help (sarcasm here)

Drosera Jun 23, 2005 11:41 AM

Just in case you're an innocent person who just got on the forum, (I suspect you are, your grammar's pretty good) there's a 15 year old who if you check the forums recent history, (page 2 and 5 mainly, though also 2005 archives) goes by the name of Crazy4burm123 and bloodboy128. Who got rid of his normal burm and now has a young albino burm. Also whom you are being mistaken for. (as was RuHigh in his first post) Which is partially why everyone is absolutely hitting the roof over your question. (and mentioning big cats)
If you're interested in forum history, check it out. His threads are morbidly fascinating in the same way that a ten car pileup is. Also a lot of people tried to beat him over the head with good advice so it's a good way to pick up basic burm info.
A burm is an insanely difficult first snake to start with (my 4 ft king gives me trouble! ) so good luck and check out Rob Carmichael's posts. Glad you saved the big/little fellows.
-----
0.1 chickens (Condor)
0.2 dog mutts (half ownership, only mine when they misbehave, Lucy & Amy)
0.1 Halflinger horse (Crissy)
0.1 Normal phase California Kingsnake (Sophia)
1.1 parents
Still searching for 1.0 WC human

RuHigh Jun 23, 2005 09:52 PM

Yea I was, and IF, you are not him, I'm sorry. I do remember what it made me fell like, so I am sorry for that.

But this is what you posted;

"I was wondering how long our albino burm can go between feedings without affecting his health? we don't have the space/money for a 15 footer, the smaller the better"

There is a VERY good chance that you WILL have a 15' or BIGGER snake in just a few years, are you going to keep it when it gets that big? Will you, by then have the money to feed it?

From your post, I got it that you want to try to keep it as small as you can. The thing is, the snake will be as big as IT wants, under feeding it, feeding it just the minimum it needs, is just wrong. And if you don't KNOW you can care for it when it does get that big I still say get rid of it.

If you keep it,
I feed my young ones every 7-10 days, my adults every 14 days. Now I know they can go longer, I just don't see why you would want to, unless your burm is overweight.

There are a lot of good people here, you can tell buy they way we all replied we love our burms. That is why when you said you wanted to keep it small by under feeding it you got jumped on.

Just so you know, I would of said the same thing, even if I didn't think you were him, I just would not of asked about the cats.

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