Reptile & Amphibian Forums

i have a medium sized albino horned frog.up untill the past 5 months he ate like a normal frog.i fed him mice and fish mainly.about 5 months ago my veiled chameleon developed a rectal prolapse and since i didnt like him very much,and since i wasnt very close to a vet,i fed him to my horned frog.after eating him he seemed to refuse all food for about a month.towards the end of the month i started wondering if maybe he just liked the chameleon so much,he would only eat them.i went out,purchased another veiled and BAM!.now i have been trying to get him to eat mice and fish to no avail.at the end of each month i break down and buy another veiled.this is getting quite expensive so id like some advice.i tried leopard geckos because they are less expensive but he didnt like it so i had to force feed it to him.it has gone on like that for a few other animals as well.i have force fed him baby iguanas and an adult cone head lizard.the only animals he eats on his own seem to be veilds.i have not tried any other type of chameleons yet.maybe ill try a parakeet if all else fails.

I hope this is a joke...but if it's not..

Don't feed him chameleons you asshat. Ever heard of CRICKETS!?
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1.0 Baby Sunburst Veiled Chameleon -- Dexter

Wow... you didnt like your pet much so you fed it off... BTW did you ever consider what maybe made your veild sick could be transmitted to your frog? This is very unresponsible of you. Also a diet of Mice and Fish is highly unhealthy as a staple (assumeing the fish were goldfish). TRY Earthworms, Butterworms Grasshoppers (from a non sprayed area), Horned worms, guppies(most livebearers) crickets etc... Feeding the prey items youve mentioned can lead to some very unfortunate causes of death.

snip "Also a diet of Mice and Fish is highly unhealthy as a staple (assumeing the fish were goldfish). TRY Earthworms, Butterworms Grasshoppers (from a non sprayed area), Horned worms, guppies(most livebearers) crickets etc... Feeding the prey items youve mentioned can lead to some very unfortunate causes of death"

And again the mouse issue comes up. On a caloric basis rodents are pretty much no worse than crickets and other insects such as caterpillars (which are also high in fat)when it comes to the fat issue. There are references that document fat and lipid issues with invertebrate only diets (and I have posted pics of this in the past). Overfeeding of any food source is a problem and can lead to fat issues.
The vast majority of analysis available on the net (and provided by the companies such as Grubco) are in units of weight so it is hard to compare the items being fed to the frogs unless the comparision is conveted to a caloric comparision (such as that provided in Mader's book) as this allows it to be compared to the frogs' caloric needs.
As rodents are "denser" the frequency of feeding needs to be significantly less than when insects are fed. (Or you can look up the charts in Amphibian Medicine and Captive Husbandry and calculate out the frog's caloric needs and set up a feeding schedule to prevent obesity). For example adult crickets after being fed for 48-72 hours typically weigh between 0.3 and 0.4 grams while a pinkie that has the same body length (excluding the ovipositor on the female) can weigh 1.2 grams. So it would be possible to feed the frog the same number of pinks as the crickets but have a significantly higher calorie load (even lean foods fed in excess can result in fat deposition and obesity) as the pink is between three and four times denser than the cricket.
As long as the frequency of feeding is a lot less and the rodent is supplemented with a good D3 source there shouldn't be any problems.

I am glad to see the recommendation for live bearers and away from goldfish.

Ed

of course i have tried insects.he ate insects untill she got large enough to show no interest in them,the only interest he shows is when they crawn on his head,hell take his hand and knock them off.i have not yet tried hornworms though.their large size may be of interest to him.i live in an area infested with very large gypsy moth caterpillars.are these ok to eat?or will the hairs cause a problem?i read once that hairy catarpillars can cause a rash from their hair.thanks

Im no entomologist but from what ive read gypsy moth caterpillars are an ok... One problem is "Buck Moth Caterpillars", they look next to identical to the untrained eye and these do secrete a poison wich can cause problems. Unless you are sure of what your catching I wouldnt recomend it. But like I said im no expert, maybe someone else can give some input.

Tent caterpillars are shown to cause problems with animals fed then and there is some speculation that the hairs on the caterpillar are what is irritating the consuming animal. Generally do not use any hairy caterpillars.

Ed

i cant believe you fed your cham. to your frog! what a horrible pet owner you are! ever heard of a VET. i hope in another life, you come back as that chameleon. shame shame.

rachel
In Depth Information On Common Aquatic Frogs

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4.3 African Clawed Frog
3.3 Calfornia Newt
0.1 Leucistic Texas Ratsnake
1.2 Veiled Chameleon
0.1 Albino Cranwells Horned Frog
0.1 Paddle Tail Newt
0.1 Green Iguana
0.5.0 Indonesian Floating Frog

But if it's not, take it to the vet
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CokeOfMan

well, joke or no joke, if he fed him a healthy chameleon would you guys have a problem? how is an anole to a stbborn baby corn any different? Or, as one with pet rats, how is that different than a rat to a big snake?
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0.0.1 Chrysemys picta picta (Eastern Painted Turtle)
0.0.1 Teliqua gigas (Indonesian Blue Tongue Skink)
0.2.0 Eublepharis macularius (Leopard Geckos)
0.0.1 Nerodia sipedon (Northern Water Snake)
0.0.1 Rhacodactylus ciliatus (Crested Gecko)
?.?.? Assorted goldfish, minnows and guppies
1.0.0 Ferret
1.1.0 Cats
1.0.0 Aussie Cattle Dog/ Border Collie Mix

"well, joke or no joke, if he fed him a healthy chameleon would you guys have a problem? how is an anole to a stbborn baby corn any different? Or, as one with pet rats, how is that different than a rat to a big snake?"

yeah its a pet eat pet world out there,huh? nice one. dude i can't believe you fed ur cham. to ur frog. thats crazy. n then a leaopard gecko. w/e just don't be surprised if "something goes wrong".
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0.0.1 cranwells pacman- hannibal
0.0.1 firebelly toad- doodlebug
0.0.1 eastern painted turtle- mr.tortle
1.0.0 pinto hedgehog- dante
1.0.0 chinese crested- angel..lol

*leopard
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0.0.1 cranwells pacman- hannibal
0.0.1 firebelly toad- doodlebug
0.0.1 eastern painted turtle- mr.tortle
1.0.0 pinto hedgehog- dante
1.0.0 chinese crested- angel..lol