Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am looking to buy a snake and i've narrowed down my decision between the california king and the pueblan milk. Which one should i get?

Man go with the pueblan milksnake,very very docile, very colorful and nice eaters to and only get to about 3 foot.I have 4 pueblans and have always loved them.

go with the king. IMHO you might want to consider a eastern king snake they get bigger and personally i think they look cooler. Pueblans are kind of jumpy...not agrssive but squirmy.
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Be excellent to each other...and Party on dude!

If this is your first snake, I would honestly have to say go with the california king. The reasons are:

1. Pueblans as hatchlings/yearlings can be very squirmy and musk alot. They can be problem feeders, but some do have very strong feeding responses and feed well.

2. Milks can sometimes stress easily and go off feed.

3. As adults, milks can still be pretty squirmy. Probably 50/50 chance of getting or not getting one that will be squirmy at adulthood.

4. California kings come in a multitude of morphs.

5. Most cal kings have a great feeding response and hardly ever go off feed.

6. Cal kings as hatchlings can be flighty, but settle down quickly with handling and are pretty mellow once "broke in".

A couple things that you might want to consider are size and attitude. The king will require a larger enclosure at adulthood than the milk. And the king will have more of an attitude than the milk. Especially when it smells food. Kings are some strong feeders. I have 2 cal kings, and they both hit the F/T mice like freight trains!!! But neither one of them have ever bitten me! Unlike a couple of my rat snakes!! LOL

But what you should really do, IMHO, is get the king first, get accustomed to owning a snake, its needs, reactions, etc. etc. etc. and then later on, get the milk!!! Because trust me, once you get one snake, you will soon have many!!! LOL They are addicting!!!

I would bet that in a year or so, you will have a few snakes!!
Good luck on your decision and let us know what you decide!
Here is a pic of my female coastal phase....

And a pic of my huge male coastal phase, probably close to 60"! This pic was taken last sept and he was at 54-55", and has grown since then.

Brian

>>I am looking to buy a snake and i've narrowed down my decision between the california king and the pueblan milk. Which one should i get?

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RATS
1.0 Corn snake "Warpath" (KY locale)
0.0.1 Corn snake (KY locale)
1.0 Black rat snake "Havok" (KY locale)
1.1 Black rat snakes "Reaper and Mystique" (MO locale)
1.0 Albino Black rat snake "Malakai" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Everglades rat snake "Deadpool" (Dwight Good stock)
0.1 Greenish rat snake "Rogue" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Yellow rat snake "Wolverine" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Grey rat snake "Punisher" (White oak phase)(Dwight Good stock)

Good luck and Happy Herping
Brian

Entirely up to you. Both are pretty, neither is particularly delicate, which is the main thing to avoid in a first snake.
I don't know much about the milks, so here's reflections on kings.
The main thing about Cal kings, is they're verrry food oriented. Which can be good or bad, depending how you look at it. My girl has mistaken me for a mouse on occassion (I have to use vinegar to make her spit me out) but she's almost never fearful or aggressive, she's cute as a puppy, and she never refuses a meal.
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0.1 chickens (Condor)
0.2 dog mutts (half ownership, only mine when they misbehave, Lucy & Amy)
0.1 Halflinger horse (Crissy)
0.1 Normal phase California Kingsnake (Sophia)
1.1 parents
Still searching for 1.0 WC human

It doesn't really matter. You'll have both within a couple of months, and probably more! I find myself building a new enclosure ever week these days. Heck, i suppose this vice is better than others.

Well i really like that the milk only gets about 3 feet and i like the colors of them, but are they really that problematic?

If you get one from a highly reputable breeder that's very well started and regularly accepts unscented f/t prey, that can minimize feeding troubles. And multiple hide boxes helps any snake feel secure. I'm not familiar with their personalities though.
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0.1 chickens (Condor)
0.2 dog mutts (half ownership, only mine when they misbehave, Lucy & Amy)
0.1 Halflinger horse (Crissy)
0.1 Normal phase California Kingsnake (Sophia)
1.1 parents
Still searching for 1.0 WC human

I don't think either snake makes a great first snake.

Pueblans are too jumpy. Many of them calm down after a year or so, but they are pretty difficult to deal with until then.

CalKings can be a great first snake, but a rare few are biters. If you can accept that risk of maybe getting one of the rare ones, you should be fine.

IMHO, there are dozens of snakes that make a better choice for a first snake. Search some of the answers to the MANY posts like this on this forum.
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Chris Harrison

Chris has a good point. If docility is your only requirement, then the two snakes mentioned may not be what you want.

On the other hand, if for an example you are interested in the Pueblan milksnake and its natural history, then I'd say don't settle for anything else. Same goes with Cal kings. Maybe you just really like the form and function of Cal kings. Then go for that and make it work.

Point is, if it isn't about what interests you, then go with what makes an ideal snake pet, and that may or may not be a Cal king (food-aggressive, musky) or a Pueblan (flighty, musky.)

I have been breeding and raising pueblans for years and they are just as good as any cali king snake. And they can become really docile as adults, you just have to hold them alot. but there not as bad as what you guys are making them,

I have been breeding and raising pueblans for years and they are just as good as any cali king snake.

Agreed, I find neither of them to be a great first snake if handling is high on your priority list.

And they can become really docile as adults, you just have to hold them alot. but there not as bad as what you guys are making them,

My point exactly. The babies are a pain in the a$$ and you have to handle them and deal with their thrashing and squirming (and diving out of cages) for years sometimes before they totally settle down. Get a Mexican Milksnake and they don't do that.
I used to have pueblans as well, that's how I know.
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Chris Harrison

No one said they were not cool snakes they were simply saying that it might not be the best snake for a person who has NEVER OWNED A SNAKE. Same principle goes with many other snakes. Green Tree Pythons, Eastern Hog's, Burm's, Recics, or venemous species are terrible choices for first snakes but that doesn't make that any less awesome for more experienced keepers. I personaly think one of the easiest first snakes is the african house snake. But many first time keepers shy away from they because they are not very colorful. Although i think they are beautiful snakes.
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Be excellent to each other...and Party on dude!

I have to disagree with you on this one. I have kept pueblans as well as a multitude of other colubrids. I can tell you from personal experience that pueblans are alot more squirmy as babies than just about any other colubrid. I have had baby cal kings, prairie kings, black kings, florida kings, rats, and pits, and the pueblans were by far worse than any of the others!! I have even raised hondurans from babies, and they are much like most colubrids. Of course you are going to have some squirmy colubrids, but not near as many as with the pueblans.
I still say get a king, cant go wrong!!
Brian

>>I have been breeding and raising pueblans for years and they are just as good as any cali king snake. And they can become really docile as adults, you just have to hold them alot. but there not as bad as what you guys are making them,
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RATS
1.0 Corn snake "Warpath" (KY locale)
0.0.1 Corn snake (KY locale)
1.0 Black rat snake "Havok" (KY locale)
1.1 Black rat snakes "Reaper and Mystique" (MO locale)
1.0 Albino Black rat snake "Malakai" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Everglades rat snake "Deadpool" (Dwight Good stock)
0.1 Greenish rat snake "Rogue" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Yellow rat snake "Wolverine" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Grey rat snake "Punisher" (White oak phase)(Dwight Good stock)

Good luck and Happy Herping
Brian

Pueblan Milks snakes are very hardy, excellent feeders, that stay at or under three feet, and are very beautiful snakes. Biggest drawback to them is they are a bit on the wild side when young. Not aggressive, just very jumpy/sqirmy. That may or may not be a big deal to you. Straying off your two choices you listed, if you do like Pueblans, you might want to check out Mexican Milks (Lampropeltis Triangulum annulata)They go from 24 to 30 inchs as adults, pretty stout snakes for their size, on average they are much more calm then pueblens IMO. Also check out Sinaloan & nelson milks. Also pretty calm for milksnakes. Hope that helps.

Steve

Are mexican milks easily handled? Does it stress them to be held? What is the ideal substrate for them?

In most cases,Mexican milks as adults are very calm and tractable. All snakes are indivuduals so there's always the rare specimen that never seems to calm down. Mexican milks as hatchlings can be a little jumpy/nervous, but are much better on average then Pueblen Milks.
As far as stress, all snakes as hatchlings have a certain degree of stress when you handle them. As they grow older the stress is decreased as they get used to your daily handling and realize your not out to do them any harm.
As far as Substrate, Newspaper or aspen shavings would be at the top of my list. I use Newspaper for all of my animals, with the exception of my hognose snake that I will soon purchase. With her I will be using aspen shavings, only because of their digging/burrowing nature. Either one is excellent, it's a matter of choice. The main thing is pick what appeals to you.

Steve

Are mexican milks easily handled? Does it stress them to be held? What is the ideal substrate for them?

I plan to use something like Eco-Earth. I think that against a dark substrate the reds and yellows would stand out more. Is this suitable or should i use what you mentioned? Also is a 20L a suitable size habitat for one?

I didn't read all the posts to this question and I don't really know anything about the two snakes that you are considering. That being said.... Have you thought about a Ball Python? I never thought I would ever have snakes. My son however had different thoughts. After taking him to a reptile show a few years ago I agreed to let him have a ball python. He was 11 at the time. A year later at the same show I bought a female for myself. Granted they can be a challage to feed(actually only the male is) but they are very docile and I just love them both. Good luck on what ever snake you get.

get a brooksi king, they are sooooooooo awsome, and beat the milks in color any day!, though they do tend to be bigger than milks, brooksi get about 4 to 5 feet, but they are great!
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i have one Brooks Kingsnake, hopefully breeding in the next couple of years! yaaahhhh, only if i can find a male though lol, but im still looking for a male lol