Reptile & Amphibian Forums

With all the bad luck going around.Lets hear some idea's on diet.I am thinking of radically changing my couperi's diets.I feed my snakes every 10- 14 days(rodents)and they still look fat.I want to start feeding fish.Any suggestions on that?What about frozen thawed bullfrogs?I thought I heard they eat frogs.Lets hear your thoughts.

Mine get appropriate sized rats and chicken pieces..I never feed until I can see a bulge in an animal, too much stress...I feed often every 4-5 days and smaller items for animal size...An 8' animal will get 2 or 3 small to medium rats, plus a few chicken drumsticks...My smallest yearling female about 40", get mice or rat pups a chicken wing drumettes...I'd rather have to look at my log to see when an animal last ate...
Never tried fish, but no particular reason why..Amphibians should also be fine...
I have noticed since I got them on to chicken pieces that their eliminations are much more firm and consistent, instead of the usual "spread all over the cage"...I have no clue why, but I sure like it!! CG

Can you explain the "chicken pieces"? Are these just chicken parts right from the grocery store? Do you have to do anything to them to remove the potential for parasites, or do you just feed them raw?

Okay- enough "lurking" on my part-
Carl-
I keep seeing references lately on this forum to feeding chicken "drumsticks" and I can't help but wonder if you are feeding bones & all ? Obviously if they are broken down this might obviate the need to supplement with calcium -or could this possibly cause undue stress on their digestive system ? I suspect the prey they eat in the wild doesn't have bones which are as large in proportion to the weight of the prey - a drumstick bone comprises at least a third of the content of a drumstick (though I'm sure the bones of birds are lighter in weight than most mammal prey). Thoughts ?... Eric H...

Guys, I absolutely use chicken bought frozen from the store...Chicken legs whole for the big guys and girls...Chicken wings(has small "drummette" for the smaller animals..
No chance for parasites....They're for human consumption!

Thawed fresh out of package, skin, bones and all...I prefer chicken necks actually, but they are hard to get a store to package for you, at least here in Colorado...No feathers to mess with, which I always found to be eliminated undigested by my snakes when I fed fresh chicks or birds...

As far as the amount of bone being a plus or minus, I can't see anything but good results...I don't trim the skin off or anything else...I have used fresh from the store eggs for pines, bulls, and ratsnakes as well...

I also fed my Pines, Ratsnakes and large kings chicken pieces, too...

Probably 75% of the animals ate chicken with no hesitation, the rest I put thawed rodents in with the thawed chicken in a baggie for a few mintues..Got the anumal eating a rodent and immediately offered a piece of chicken and they just kept on eating!!

I can't see this as being any different than feeding catfish strips or some of the exotic "snake sausages" that some producers offer...

The only thing I do for "safety" is thoroughly rinse the chicken and pat dry with a paper towel...

Anybody have a problem with this or any bad experience?

My animals are thriving with this diet and as I mentioned, for some reason their feces is much more "keeper" friendly!! CG

CG,

The chicken is a great idea! However, if I fed my snakes that, I would be worried about salmonella transmission. To eliminate that, I would probably boil the chicken pieces.

Do you think this would denature all the good vitamins etc in the chicken?

A.C.

yes, chicken is for human consumption, but we tend to cook it at our house :^) Just wondering if you've seen any adverse reactions feeding chicken, but I guess probably not since you are still using it.

No chance for prasites...they're for human consumption? Huh, whu? I'd like to know what store you buy your "parasite free" meats from. Do they pick the parasites out of the meat for you, or do they get their meat from the animals taken from the parasite free farm?

Yes I believe that meat for human consumption is parasite free...Ever hear of the USDA?(not that they are infallible) I grant you a certain percentage of contamination is possible, but when was the last time you heard of a Trichinella outbreak?

In the wild I bet every creature eaten has parasites of some sort, don't you think? If not, then why do we worry about deparasitising WC animals??

Salmonella?? It's really only toxic under the right conditions and then only to humans...Remember Guardians eat turtles and birds in the wild..(Both of which are carriers of Salmonella)

How many mites and ticks are under the skin of each snake eaten?

How many parasite larvae live in each cc of raw earth? Do you think our messy eaters wash their prey before they eat it? Hell-fire, they don't even bother to kill 'em first!! What kind of stuff do you think lives in the alimentary canal of a wild rodent??

Come on, get real...Our animals eat everything RAW....Don't "cook" anything for them!!

I am suprised by these comments(no offense you guys) but I really thought I would be drawn and quartered on the "hormone/antibiotic" possibility instead of these 2 non-issues!!

I think that F/T chicken is at least as safe as F/T rodents!! And a hell of a lot cheaper!!!(not to mention NO shipping charge!) CG

I'm not disputing any of your comments in this post. I'm just stating a point that does not coincide with your statement in the first post regarding food for human consumption being parasite free (worms?). Sorry if I ruffled your feathers or compromised the integrity of your credibility in any way Mr. Core member. Sweat ye not, I shall show myself out the country club door. Toodles!

Wow, you get offended pretty easily.
You asked Carl a question in a sarcastic tone and he answered your question without any personal attacks or attitude.
So what's with the "core member" stuff?
Chris

CG,

My main concern was for me as a handler. Why would I want salmonella in the feces of the animal? This would make me more prone to getting it. I understand the animals can deal with it, but I rather pay extra for the mice and avoid that. See where I'm coming from? Am i worrying over nothing?

Hormone/antibiotic levels in the chicken eh???
That's why your Drys are so friggin big! LOL

I don't think it's a valid concern, (not dissin' your concern)...Salmonella is like the tetanus virus, it is essentially everywhere in our environment...You have to have the right set of circumstances to set off a clinical infection...For chicken/beef(E.coli) etc. it's usually unsafe handling BEFORE it gets cooked for humans that sets up the opportunity for clinical disease...(Just for grins BTW, the treatment for clinical Salmonella in humans is NOTHING!! We just keep the kids hydrated and the body does the rest...)

Hey, just don't do it if I can't alay your concerns, but with our collections, it saves an enormous amount of $$$ Enuff for a new Dry or 2 every few months !!!!! Worth thinking about 'eh..

Bobby, you've blown my cover!!! When you coming out to God's Country? (Actually, I don't know the answer to the hormone/antibiotic question anyway!!)
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Carl W Gossett
Garage Door Herps
Monument,Colorado...northern portion of the Great Republic of Texas)

Hey, if all those food additives is what's making all these young girls grow such large "racks" these days then I say add hormones to EVERYTHING!!! LOL
As to getting out your way, I'd love too, but I just bought a new truck so I'll barely have any extra cash on hand to buy YT's let alone traveling!
Plus I want to wait for all that snow to melt, it should be down to about 4 feet by now! LOL

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Carl W Gossett
Garage Door Herps
Monument,Colorado...northern portion of the Great Republic of Texas)

That's not right!!! I HATE snow!
I guess it's a small price to pay to live in such unspoiled land!

Although diet is a critical component in a sound husbandry program, I don't think it is the primary reason why folks are having a bad year with indigos; rather, it is probably several factors that are determining the level of success. Much of those who have experienced tremendous success in the past are having only limited success this year on the same feeding regimen.

I feed my indigos a varied and rotated diet of: mice, rats, quail, catfish chunks and small bunnies along with regular vitamin supplementation. My indigos are fed small meals twice a week and I feel that this is one of those species that MUST have the following for prolonged breeding success: high quality varied diet of smaller sized prey on a much more rapid feeding interval along with proper vitamin supplementation (I alternate RepCal/Herptivite and Minerall Indoor) AND a cage that is sufficiently large to allow for freedome of movement/exercise. Last, temperatures and proper hydration/humidity levels are critical variables (that is, avoiding temps that are too warm along with higher ambient humidity levels and sufficient high humid denning areas). There are many factors involved with breeding success and there is still much we have yet to learn with couperi.

with my 2nd post re: the USDA....We all know how much ratpoop they allow per ton of pepper, etc...

My bottom line was just that FT chicken is at least as safe as FT rodents and gives the animals some variety as well as saving me a bunch of $$

I'll sleep fine..
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Carl W Gossett
Garage Door Herps
Monument,Colorado...northern portion of the Great Republic of Texas)

THANKS, I just hurled my salad. There was a pepper in it. I wouldn't wish sleep deprivation on anyone.

I live sleep deprived!!...Good God, I EAT off the countertop in a HUMAN hospital..
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Carl W Gossett
Garage Door Herps
Monument,Colorado...northern portion of the Great Republic of Texas)

Any "raw chicken" eaters roll into the ER? LOL