Reptile & Amphibian Forums

My larger female R. brevi, Makeda, began acting a bit out of character a few days ago. At a whopping 1.25” long she is the queen mother of the trio (one other female and one male – Bart and Lisa). These are “relatively” social creatures who are housed in a 30gal vivarium and have been happily eating, drinking (I assume!) and climbing over each other with great tolerance for the 2+ months I have had them.

Makeda is the most tolerant of all and for awhile seemed to be “watching over” Bart (yes, after Bart Simpson). I suppose this is part of why I noticed a change in her behavior so quickly (that and the fact that I obsess over these little kids!).

She began staying on or near the ground, solid, or near, dark in coloration and even changed her sleeping location, which was the first sign. As soon as the first set of lights go out the three of them would go to their usual branches/leaves for the night. Always the same. Makeda settled for a low fittonia leaf rather than her usual high branch which she often shared with Lisa. I began having a difficult time finding her in the morning which was never the case. Lisa has always been the one to hide. She would cup feed – even waiting by the spot if the cup wasn’t there yet – as many as three crix in a row! I do not think she has eaten anything for a few days

This morning I moved her to her own little 2.5 gal viv, added some fruit flies and a plant. Her color has lightened but does not have her lovely stripes and spots.

As for physical/health outward symptoms there are few. I have even looked her over with a hand lens.

No wheezing
No mouth rot
No eye problem
Seems to have a bit of a problem getting around only in that she is slower and seems a bit less sure of herself

Her eyes are not sunken but seem a bit less protruded. When she is on the ground or a branch, she seems to be “hugging” it rather than standing off as usual.

Food and supplements:
They eat ff and small crix (up to 14/”) that are dusted with Montane Fruit Fly from herpnutrition.com

Misted and dripped a few times a day. Nothing has chenged - except her
So, I am stumped. Any help appreciated.

Here is a photo of their enclosure

Lele,
I am sorry to hear she is not doing well. Unfortunately the same symptoms occured with the ones I kept. I think these guys must be extra hard to keep because I know how you obsess over them. When our big veileds and panthers get ill it is easier for us to weigh them and figure out how much water and crix to force feed and pull them through an illness but with your little guys it's not that simple.
The only thing I can think of is make sure it's not too hot for her when chams get a very light color it could mean they are too hot. This could mean dehydration too. Try a couple drops of water on her mouth to see if you could stimulate drinking. The little syringe could work for that. You should actively see them drinking daily.
I also found out that for my baby veileds I was able to make one open his mouth to be force fed by using the tip of my fingernail to help pry his mouth open while a friend put in a drop of hydro-life. The next day he started eating on his own so it helped even though he is still definately the runt.
Maybe Reptalys can offer suggestions since they breed the little guys. Good luck and keep me posted.

Lele, Oh I hope you are just worrying...but it's good that you ask here to be sure. You said that she has not eaten in three days? I would set up a dripper (if you haven't already) if you can't get her to drink using your dropper. That way, hopefully at some point she will decide to drink. Is she one that would ordinarily cup feed?

Is she moving around the enclosure or is she just staying in one place all day? Honestly, my adult one doesn't move around that much...only if she's on a mission.

Keep us posted...and I hope she turns around.
Kristen

First thing I'd do is separate her. Partly because she needs peace and quiet and not have to spend energy maintaining her place in the group, and also because she might pass something on to the others. I would up her hydration, check if you have changed the frequency of dusting or gutloading to see if there is a link to something nutritional. Also, are these wc? Often it takes 2-3 months for long term stress and past dehydration to catch up with chams in captivity. You could be seeing a problem that has been there a long time. Hope she is OK!

Thanks, Carlton, Sonia and Kristen,

>>First thing I'd do is separate her. Partly because she needs peace and quiet and not have to spend energy maintaining her place in the group, and also because she might pass something on to the others.

***I did, as I mentioned, into a small 2.5 viv. ff, crix and mealworms have been offered at different times, to no avail

I would up her hydration, check if you have changed the frequency of dusting or gutloading to see if there is a link to something nutritional.

*** I have been totally unsuccessful with getting her to drink so this morning I did the equivalent of a shower. I filled my very fine mister with warm water and sprayed well above her to let it fall and drench her trying to keep it away from her face so she doesn't inhale water. As for gutloading, dusting, etc. all three of them are getting the same foods and the other two are just fine. Lisa is in the midst of a shed.

Also, are these wc?

***NO! (sorry, didn't mean to yell, it's just I would never own wc) They are cb. I got them from the Kammers May 9th. They have all been doing just great right from the beginning.

Often it takes 2-3 months for long term stress and past dehydration to catch up with chams in captivity. You could be seeing a problem that has been there a long time. Hope she is OK!

***Thanks, me too. I spoke with Liddy (Kammer) yesterday morning and she said what I was doing so far was the right thing and to watch her. Both she and John (charm_paradise) suggested being gravid. I have seen no mating or courting or seducing or anything else, but I know - it doesn't mean it didn't happen. They are all about 6 months old, now. I suppose one question is how does a gravid cham act?? Maybe it is what's going on! But would she stop eating and drinking?

I will say, too, that when she does walk she is not dragging herself in any way, but when she "rests" her belly is touching the branch and sometimes her back legs seem a bit splayed. Also, her color is actually good in that she is showing her usual striping.

I brought it outside for a bit just to get her some fresh air and sunshine (I didn't keep her in the sun for more than maybe 1/2 minute at a time.

Well, there's my update...I'll be devastated if anything happens to her. Here is a photo of her with back legs splayed. I know she is not on a branch but she does this when perched - sometimes. I also uploaded a "before" photo of her in the gallery.

Thanks again,

lele