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I´m going to buy this female dwarf caiman, but just want to be sure this is p. palpebrosus... an not p. trigonatus...
I still have some problems to see the difference...
please help
thanks
Rick
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n/p
Looks to be palpebrosus to me.
Good luck!
Chris
The specimen in that photograph is p. trigonatus (Smooth-fronted/Schneider's dwarf caiman).
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Israel Dupont
Winter Haven, FL
Izzy,
It looks very much like a palp. to me. How can you distinguish the difference so easily?
Chris
Chris,
In identifying most species of crocodilian, I use a single-feature to target the name. Sometimes, as in the case of the two paleosuchus species, the feature is directly in contrast to that of another. The Cuvier's Dwarf caiman looks superficially like a Smooth-front (Schneider's Dwarf), but one way, among others, is to look at the osteoderms...on the trigonatus, they are 'sloppily' arranged. One the palpebrosus, they are not.
Look at the osteos in the above-described photo and you can clearly see.
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Israel Dupont
Winter Haven, FL
Oh ok, after comparing that one to his photo below, I can certainly tell the difference. Thank you for the explanation.
Best Wishes,
Chris
thanks guys... I really apreciate your help...
I was just about buying this girl.... but I want a female p. palpebrosus
now its clear to me how to know the difference, thanks Israel and Chris
Rick
It looks like a trig to me. The scutes on the back are not uniform in straight lines but rather are disjunct and not in a set pattern.
DEUGAN
n/p
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CDieter
'Reason, observation, and experience; the holy trinity of science.'
I would suggest you purchase your P. palpebrosus, from a more experianced dealer/breeder, if you are looking to purchase from the USA you may have trouble finding someone to export, I would suggest you speak with http://www.naturecoastexotics.com/ im sure they can help you out with a nice female P. palpebrosus, and I know they have a few really nice P. palpebrosus as well as p. trigonatus available at this time.
Also, I would be weary of sellers that cant positivily identify the species they are selling, I my self personaly perfer to use scientific names with regards to any animal transaction, unless I am dealing with someone I know is knows there stuff when it comes to animals they deal with.
tks... I´ve seen the p. palpebrosus from WWW.naturecoastexotics.com, now they have adult males... and I´m looking for a 18-24 inches girl...
and yes I agree with you, its better to deal with scientific names than regular or comercial names... but not every one does it... you can find in classifieds people that sells dwarf-type caimen... so it could be any one p. trigonatus or p. palpebrosus...
Rick
Yes I have seen those add's for "some type dwarf caiman" !!!
I wouldnt buy anything from someone that doesnt know what they are selling, thats just crazy.
Kind of reminds me of the pet store people that say "oh the gator will only get as big as the fish tank"
np
or how about the dealers and pet stores that tell people dwarf caimans never grow beyond 3 feet? Those are the ones that really make me mad.
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Those idiots are really starting to Pi$$ me off. This is just getting ridiculous. It's no wonder these people want to take down the pet trade. Irresponsible sellers, irresponsible owners, and a whole lot of animal's with no place to go. We continue to breed and breed and breed for "pets", but yet, there are so few responsible individuals that can truly care for them. This is why this hobby will be coming to an end of we dont do something.
If anyone is interested join some of us in the venomous forum. We are trying to get together to work out logical plans that will help on all angles. We need input from many different backgrounds and experiences, so if anyone has anything to offer or are willing to help please jump in.
Chris
yes I know.... those are the most stupid think I´ve hear...
and Chris is rigth... these are some facts that are killing the hobby...
I would like to talk about something...
what you guys think about diamond caiman... this people sais that they have breed it for 5 years... a caiman doesn´t get its bigger size in 5 years...
also, could this be possible..???? spec and yacare are medium-big animal, the breeding could be small???
I think it sn´t posible...
siamesse x saltie breeding are biger than the salties, how could you explain the diamond caiman???
Rick
Anyone who would advertise a crocodilian, as "Bred to be pets" are complete morons. They deserve no business and are probably one of the many reasons why so many herpers are losing this battle to keep our privileges of owning these animals.
I will actually be getting a diamond later this year, but I don't believe for a second that they make better "pets" than other crocs. A hybrid from two aggressive animals is going to make another aggressive animal. I honestly don't understand the logic. They come from a breeding group made up of a male spec and a few female yacares. The offspring actually look like Yacares and that is their appeal to me. I don't believe they have bred any of the babies back into the lineage. I don't know how they can make the claim that they are great pets if none have even reached adulthood yet. Perhaps the parents were unusually calm.
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I dont live in the US guys, but I think the laws should take care of this kind of people that just spoil the hobby, instead of bothering the people who really loves to live with this beautyfull animals
best wishes
Rick
"I think the laws should take care of this kind of people that just spoil the hobby"
Are you suggesting a law against dishonesty? We already have those up here but they don't seem to do any good. The solution of most lawmakers on these issues is to just outright ban these animals. That is that last thing I want to see happen. I think a better way to handle misinformation is to publish more books and articles on croc keeping in captivity. A pet store owner would be a lot less likely to misrepresent an animal if they sold a book contradicting them.
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ok... I agree with you... that would be a better way
but I still think that these people should be punished some way...
Rcik
we should make them take a swim in the sewer with the thousands of "3' tame caimans" they sold. After a few lost digits they should learn their lesson really quick.
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>>but I still think that these people should be punished some way...
The best way to "punish" dishonest dealers or those who don't care properly for their animals is to withhold your business.
I'm constantly amazed at people who regularly complain about the husbandry/condition of the animals at *Brand X* pet shop, but continue to shop there because it is closer or sometimes cheaper. Of course they don't hesitate to call me repeatedly for free advice on how to save their "bargains." And if I recommend a product (after spending several minutes on the phone) they will usually ask "Is there anywhere closer I can buy that?"
so are these palpebrosus because the site they are on is selling them as smooth fronts.
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np
"Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime."
Go to the link below and read, and you'll never have to rely on others to identify dwarf caimans for you...the power's in your hands....
Link
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Israel Dupont
Winter Haven, FL
powerfull words... LOL
youre rigth...
I´ve already seen that page, and read it several times, but still have some trubles to identify this guys
but will try...
the ones in the pic are p. palpebrosus... rigth??
thanks for the suport
Rick
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