Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I know of a couple of you out there who have already posted that you are double clutching your females. I'm getting my female Luis Torres ready. I've already intro'ed a male to her once and she did alot of tail whipping but didn't seem interested in mating. Could that be a sign that she is going to double clutch on her own?

Chris

I am trying like crazy over here to see if some of my females will double clutch.
I usually feed heavily (as you did) for about a week or so then re introduce the male. If she refuses, I just keep feeding and reintroducing the male. Sometimes the female will not have to breed a second time to lay fertile eggs. She will retain sperm and re fertilize new eggs. Sometimes the sperm from the first breeding is spent and she will accept the male again to ensure fertility.
And sometimes she will not lay a second clutch regardless of feeding or breeding. I think it is even possible for the female to retain sperm over the winter and fertilize eggs the following spring.
That may seem a little far fetched for some, but if you check out some of the posts on the Kingsnake forum made by Frank Retes you will certainly have to re think alot of the ways snakes reproduce...
I remember some people asking in some posts whether or not a female can actually become gravid without even breeding.....I would think not, but some have had females lay fertile eggs without breeding. In nearly all of these instences the offspring were all males....Makes you think if the female is trying to produce future mates to breed with.....
Enough rambling for now,
Good luck double clutching Chris.....I hope I can get some more eggs this year from my females...If not there is always next year.
John Lassiter

three of the four females I bred this year are double clutching. Two of the are in their nest box now with at least 10-12 eggs each in their bellies. Hopefully they all come out well fertilized.

Chris - The hybino sonorans I got from Dave W. are breeding and I feel folicles in the female...this could be a very quick turn around on investment if all goes well.

I'm trying to get my mexmex to go again....no luck yet....but I feel the secret is in packing on the food as soon after the first clutch...

LAter,
Russ

Glad to see someone is having some success this year. Not to say I'm not happy with my snake breeding season. I was not expecting to breed any thayeri this year and now I'm trying to get in a double clutch. I'm just glad I have some thayeri eggs cooking.

Remember back a month ago or so when I posted about keeping 4 of my thayeri "girls" together in a 20 gallon tank? I had them all in there for 5 days when I discovered one of the "girls" turned out to be a drag queen and was trying to lock up with one of the real girls. A couple of those girls have folicles and I'm a little concerned that I may have some gravid snakes I did not intend to breed. One of them has quit feeding and is in the blue now. I'm going to put in a nest box as soon as she sheds just in case.

Glad to hear those hybino sonoran gophers seem to be working out for you, Russ. Keep us posted on how they are doing.

Chris

I spoke to soon.......the first of my 2nd clutches is out in fat it only took the female less than an hour to shoot out 12 eggs, 2 of which look fertile...the rest duds. Very dissappointing but as my buddy says "that's farming"!

My only breeding male must have severely depleted his sperm during the first go around. Time will tell with the other two girls.

I wouldn't worry to much about the young ones breeding. Although it was unplanned and probably not preferred, if they are big enough to produce folicles/eggs then they were big enoguh to breed. Sure the clutch may turn out infertile or be small but I've seen first year snakes push out some great eggs way before they should have. Good luck.

Russ

another clutch of 14 eggs....13 good and 1 slug....a much better day than yesterday. One more female to lay and it's all over at my house.
Russ

Hey comgrats Russ. You better start stocking up on pinkies. LOL

Good luck with those girls John. The Good Lord know's you can use some good luck about now. Sorry to hear about the problems you've had this year with your thayeri girls laying bad eggs.

I have been reading the posting on the kingsnake forum by FR and others. He's got some very interesting ideas about breeding kingsnakes. I sure as heck hope he's right about how long these snakes live and breed. I'd love to be able to breed some of these snakes I have for the next 20 years,(if I survive). Pretty interesting stuff too, about cooling temps and temps in general. I doesn't really suprise me though considering how much time my snakes spend in their water bowls. The one point FR made though about pythons and boa's crossing the road at temps of 50-60. I put money on the idea that the snakes were not so much crossing the rd but trying to warm up on the road. LOL But in general I would agree that they prefer cooler temps than most of us provide them.

Oh and your other point about snakes laying fertile eggs without breeding. It's not as far fetched as you think. My first jobs as a kid was to catch some local lizards you find here, New Mexico whiptails. My little brother and I had regular jobs for 2 summers catching these lizards for the Univ. of New Mexico. We found out they were doing a study on parthenogenic (unisex) among these lizards. They are all females.

I fed my Luis Torres female 2 more good size mice tonight. So thats 7 mice in the past 5 days. I hope she has the need to breed. LOL

Chris

Thanks for the good luck....I need all I can get about now....I am not too upset....I think next year will make up for it all.

As for longetivity of breeders......Don Shores had an alterna that bred from age 3 to 20, double clutching numerous years and passed away at age 22...Just some food for thought.

I am going to start "tinkering around" with my techniques.....I just follow what everyone else has been doing for the last ten years. I know nobody is right or wrong, we just get complacent about what has worked for someone else and we make that a general rule of husbandry. We CANNOT emulate the wild, but we DO provide as best we know how for our snakes in captivity.

A wise man once told me this...."The snakes are in the driver's seat, we are merely along for the ride....." That wise man was and still is Don Soderberg (South Mountain Reptiles).....

I am lucky to have 2 clutches of locale specific Splendida, 1 clutch of Lavender Brooksi, 1 clutch of Thayeri and some more on the way....I hope.
Wish me some more luck.....LOL
John Lassiter