Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I bought a het striper not too long ago for a nice high price. I felt it was worth every penny. Now I see that BallPython.com, a supposed big and respectable breeder, is selling them for almost half price. What's up with that? Did I miss something when I bought mine? Did I make a bad decision? Or are they just treating the ball python market like an amusement park?

First of all ther ball market is "what is it worth to me" IMHO cause you have to pay for it. Was it a male or female that u purchased,usually males are cheaper. And Sean is reasonable I think on his het Males.It all depends on what you are willing to pay. Now keep in ming his are 50% ers did u purchase a 50 or 100 %? That as you know makes a huge differnce as well. Anyhow good luck with your het.

Mike

Who is Sean?

Was your animal a 2003 or a 2002? If a 2002 you may find that the extra year is well worth the extra you paid.

Price setting is difficult. You have to guess what you think you can sell what you have for without selling it for less than it's worth for you to keep it.

Maybe they underestimated the market. If they sell out real quick then maybe they should have asked for more. If not, then maybe they are still too expensive.

I notice they are asking 2.5 times more for their females than males. Presumably that is what the females are worth to them to keep should they not sell. The more females they keep the more stripes they can produce later so they have considerable keeper value. However, I don't suppose they need a lot of extra het males.

It is their animal and what ever makes them comfortable is ok with me. I paid 7500 for a 2000 SK male axanthic now they are selling a 2003 for 3500. Hey, that is the market price now. I paid 12,000 for het pieds in 97 now they are 4,000. No one should be in charge of keeping prices up. It is their animals to sell at what price they wish too sell them for ..... period.

Get a pair of hets from them. More people can enter the market now.
My 5 cents
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RicK Denmon

Ball Boutique,Inc.

This is just what I have heard and I in no way have evidence to make this claim true. I have heard that their stripes are unproven, which is the reason they are cheaper, have a chanc to NOT prove out, but it is unlikely.
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~~~ Krystal - Future breeder of Pythons, Geckos, we'll see what else later! Specalizing in Ball Pythons and Leopard Geckos ~~~ www.geocities.com/krystal19_85 ~~~

Before making that kind of accusation with no evidence by your own admission, I would check into it before making that kind of statement on a public forum. I have had the pleasure of getting to know Dan and Colette in my opinion they are honest, stand up people. I have had the pleasure of seeing most of their collection and the genetic stripes are very nice.
Matt

That is why I atated it was just word of mouth, just telling what I heard. I am in NO way trying to down talk one of (IMO) the best breeders out there, and I never would, just what someone told me.
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~~~ Krystal - Future breeder of Pythons, Geckos, we'll see what else later! Specalizing in Ball Pythons and Leopard Geckos ~~~ www.geocities.com/krystal19_85 ~~~

n/p

They did not import their genetic stripes, if I remember correctly they bought them from VPI. Whoever started that rumor is either jealous or just mad that they dropped the price on them.

Eric

I thought they imported at least one and maybe two but can't remember. Not sure which line the ones they have now are from but by the look of the adults I would be so sure that not only where they genetic but compatible that if I had the money I might even pay more for a new line even if not technically proven. Not that I think anything is wrong with the Clark line, just nice to get some diversity.

You could be right, some of their stock may have been imported. I know some of it came from VPI.

As far as I know they are unproven. I asked Dan if they were proven and Dan said no but he doubted if they would not prove out.

Where are those two anyhow. They could give some input.
And get that pass word protection off your site! damn how can I order?
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RicK Denmon

Ball Boutique,Inc.

That was what I heard, but I wasn't going to say that I was right since it was just word of mouth. I was also wondering wher they were in this thread. I am not into stripers yet, but I will have one someday along with any morph I can get! I love them ALL! But by the time I can get one the prices that are being said are 1/2 the normal price will be double the normal price LOL!
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~~~ Krystal - Future breeder of Pythons, Geckos, we'll see what else later! Specalizing in Ball Pythons and Leopard Geckos ~~~ www.geocities.com/krystal19_85 ~~~

They are at Sea World. I talked to them at IRBA, and they said they were staying in San Diego today. I've seen their genetic stripes and I've seen other genetic stripes and they are the same.

The pictures of the adults I have seen are nice and clean.
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RicK Denmon

Ball Boutique,Inc.

Half price according to who? The person you bought yours from? Who decided they were the benchmark for pricing? I'd say they are charging a price that they feel the market will bear...simple supply-side economics!

As to the "supposed reputable breeder", I would say that you'd be hard-pressed to find a more reputable breeder (especially here on the west coast). I was lucky enough to get to see Dan and Collette's inventory at the IRBA show here in San Diego yesterday. Their Hypo Mojave is soooooooooooo incredible! They know their stuff, and I would consider their prices to be a more reliable benchmark than anyone else's (mainly because they are the closest big name to me, and their market will be more like my own).

Yes, they are a well respected breeders not only on the west coast but here in the east coast. Very fair in dealing with the public. I have several of their animals in my collection. Fair pricing and healthy animals. I am looking to purchase again from them. Very Professional folks!

Now got to find NeMo
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RicK Denmon

Ball Boutique,Inc.

bought it for a nice high price and it was worth every penny.,..

now they are cheaper and worth less pennies...

yep....welcome to America.....free trade ....and too high prices to start with....

balls...tousands of dollars....and alot of dumb people...it'a a deadly mix....

........anyways...they live and breed for 30 years...you'll make the money baqck someday....

as for the big boys dropping prices...I was offline for a week due to lightning killing my 'puter....

I heard of te harsh words towards certain price dropping...

I think it's funny....

people yell and cry and scream when someone else drops a price....then when they do it it's ok....

hey...look at some of the big boys price lists...tey ave morphs posted at triple the going rate....

theory is...if someone is dumb enough to pay three times the worth(300times actually)...then they rip you off and not say a word.,...

I waited 10 years for an albino ball...and I can make my money back at $100 a piece....

PRE-Plan.....LOL.....

like I said...in 2023 let me know...I can buy some stuff from you.....

JYReptiles

......axanthics....dropping by te minute...maybe at daytona tey'll be $2G too.....?.....they are so damn ugly as adults anyways......

I should have known better than to ask people on this forum.

I'm not even sure where this price came from. I e-mail Dan earlier this year about het males and he quoted me $4500, so where did the $2000 come from?? This is an awesome morph and deserves a high price. There are not enough Stripes out there to already start bringing the price down. I think pairs of hets should be about $10,000, I mean the homo form is $20,000-$25,000!! I know its free trade and everything else, but anyone out there who is seriously investing in animals, has now lost money, not to mention the big breeders who have alot of money wrapped up in these morphs. This is not to offend anyone and I'm not trying to put down the Sutherlands, but it seems there could have been a better decision on this matter. Just my 2 cents.
Jason

Finally someone with some intellect.

I bought Enron.
I bought Boston Chicken.
I bought WorldCom.
I bought Power Ball tickets too!
I bought a pair of het pieds for 12k now under 4k. Am I mad you bet; but that is what this business is about. I will make my money back. I produced 2.3 pieds off that investment. If I sold them for 5k each now I will have made my money back. Sure I wanted 25k for a male and 15k for a female! Who would not?Wanted to marry my first girlfriend too. Glad I didn't...but that is a whole different story.
Dan told me $3500. So? Maybe not enough people wanted them for $3500. Perhaps he was fishing for a response from folks for price. I thought it was a good buy at that price - but I wanted to get money this years babies first. If I wait till I do I will have saved $1500. He has a right to sell them at any price. When he sells out the price will go back up. Perhaps they do not want to sell at high prices. Brings more folks into the morphs.

Life is too short! And nothing in life is guaranteed - except death and taxes!

Where is NeMo when you need him?
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RicK Denmon

Ball Boutique,Inc.

there are also over 1-2 hundred pieds out there. how many genetic stripes are there? u and i can probably count on one of our sets of fingers. sure he's got the right to sell them at what he wants. that's not the point. the point is....people take it upon themselves, in a selfish manner, to disrespect the market like that just because they need to move thier animals. it affects everyone. it's very selfish. sure it's a great buy, but you wouldn't expect that from a known and big breeder. you'd expect it from some lucky fool that lives on a farm and has barley an 8th grade education. hey, maybe that IS them?
a bullet in my foot don't feel quite so good.

Very well said, if the big guys aren't looking out for us smaller guys, then who is.....

thanks. glad to see someone understands

Just ask some of the breeders why they are not selling 2002 het stripes? Perhaps too high...not enough interest. Ask them. If I wanted a het stripe now I would buy from Dan. Besides their stripe looks much cleaner. IMHO
I think Pete could have 1-2 hundred pieds in his collection alone.
I find it not selfish but sharing their hard work with many other herpers.
And what college did you graduated from, and what type of work do you do to be able to purchase those hets Skooter777? BTW does a college education make you smarter?.... I think most of the "big breeders" have "just" a high school education. Does that make it wrong? Nope. They know their business. No need for a piece of paper.
Hope it doesn't hurt too much after you have that bullet removed!
RicK

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RicK Denmon

Ball Boutique,Inc.

Like I said before....I should have known better than to talk to people on this forum.

We agree.
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RicK Denmon

Ball Boutique,Inc.

The fact of the matter is, they are screwing anyone who invested in this morph. By bringing the prices this low, what are possible hets worth?? And what will 100% het pairs be next year $5000?? Come on there are VERY few stripes and the morph needs to be respected and kept high.
Jason

Sure...wink wink.
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RicK Denmon

Ball Boutique,Inc.

I don't think a “big breeder” is doing the market any favors by holding animals just because they aren't selling at the current established price. What will happen to all those hold backs? If they are female, I don't think they are going on a maintenance diet to be shelved for years. They are going to feed them well and breed them and produce more down the road. They might even do this with the males, especially if there is any chance of identifying the het daughters from the possible hets. In general the big breeders should do a better job of producing more with these hold backs than most they would have sold them to. Eventually the pent up pressure will cause the kind of larger and more sudden price correction that could actually cause someone to loose money. I think with a little luck, breeding know-how, and patience most will make out very well with slow but steady price drops. In 10 years the extra $k or two you spent for your hets (presumably at least a few months if not a year older than these) will not make any difference compared to what you have made on all the offspring by then if you keep with it and don’t run into the problems everyone risks (bad feeders, bad breeders, any number of other unlikely things that could go wrong).

That said, I have no idea what the market will support for het stripes. Was everyone selling all they wanted at last year’s price? Will they sell out too quick at this new low price? If you have the stripe gene and your offspring are worth more to you than you can move them for then by all means hold them. But don't hold them to try to keep the price artificially high in an attempt to control supply. Too many people have them already; the genie is out of the bag and any short term leveling of the price will just even out later.

Dude so what, they dropped the price from 4500 to 2000. They couldn't sell them for 4500, they don't have infinite room. Breeders do need to sell animals. They can not hold the market up, if they hold the market up they aren't making a living. Why would a breeder care about the little guy. Big breeders care about making their living, not helping you make a living by producing snakes.
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Derek Affonce
DeKeAff Exotics
dekeaffexotics.com

I am not going to waste my time and wade through all these posts, but it looks like you may have confused two companies, and 100% hets with possible hets.

Dave

yes, ballpython.com with ballpythonmorphs.com

SnakeKeeper = ballpython.com = good price on hets

Exotics by Nature = ballpythonmorphs.com (some division) = good price on possible hets