Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi everyone,

I had read awhile ago on this forum, that one scarlet snake keeper was able to get his scarlet snake to eat some strips of raw chicken soaked in raw beaten egg. Well, I was determined... only I realized that I did not have any chicken breast on hand. All I had was a tiny, low-grade minute steak. Well, I cut part of the high-protein steak up into really tiny pieces, each about 2 cm long, and put them in the egg shell with the beaten egg.
This scarlet is one aggressive feeder! He sucked up all of the egg, and downed every piece of beef one by one! Next feeding, I will put a f/t pinky in there instead.
I am really happy. He is a very large and gentle scarlet, and, because he has been treated for parasites both inside and out, I will hopefully have this beauty for a very long time. Which reminds me, does anyone here know what an average treated scarlet snake's lifespan is? Anyway, I'm really happy that it fed so soon.
I think that scarlets are much like night snakes, in the way that they have such a specific, yet broad range of prey items, some of which many people would never think of. Who knows what else such secretive little guys would eat!?
-----
DAVE

1.0 Western green toad
1.1 green treefrogs
1.0 Florida blue garter snake
1.1 Oriental fire-bellied toads
1.0 American bullfrog
0.1 Spanish ribbed newt
0.0.1 Eastern ribbon snake
1.1 red-cheeked mud turtles
0.1 Dubia day gecko
1.0 Sonoran gopher snake
0.1 rough green snakes
1.1 giant African black millipedes
1.0 Okeetee corn snake
0.1 Albino African clawed frog
1.0 Kenyan sand boa
0.0.1 Argentine flame-bellied toadlet
0.0.1 African bullfrog
1.0 yellow * Everglades rat snake intergrade
1.1 Western hognose snakes
1.2 fire salamanders
1.0 scarlet kingsnake
0.0.1 Argentine horned frog
0.1 Southern ringneck snakes
1.0 Florida scarletsnake
0.0.1 Florida brown snake
0.0.1 Northern brown snake
0.0.1 Smooth earth snake
0.0.2 Western worm snakes
"And tons of garters and ribbons are being born in the reptile room this very minute..."

..I think I have told you I once had a scarlet that would take strips of beef heart. Never had a problem with it either. I had the beef heart on hand because way back when... it was simple force feeding fare for my stubborn gray bands etc.
:Mark

I do not think anyone has documented long term success with scarlet snakes and its rare for dealers to treat snakes for parasites. If you train your scarlet snake right, you can have it eating a washed pink from your fingers without scenting with egg. I did it. Its called conditioning your snake. Train it to use a hide box that is tucked tightly into the substrate and introduce an egg scented pink outside the box and eventually it will start to take the pink without scent. And then you can start handing them pinks with forceps and then with your fingers. I told this to a reptile dealer and he said I was nuts and I brought him a scarlet snakes and a defrosted pink and he fed it right on his counter. He traded it from me and sold it the same day for almost 200 dollars. Oh, if you lift the hide box to hold your scarlet snake, then your gonna ruin the training. You must never hold it for months until you can make it secure in that hiding spot. If you keep taking it from the box, then it will not go there anymore and not eat from it.

Dan

Hello Dan,

I had conditioned my night snake to take pinks. There is only one change. Both the night snake and scarlet snake in my collection never use a hiding spot, even though for the scarlet, I provided 3 or 4. Instead, both specimens prefer to spend their whole time almost "hiding in the open"' on top of a slab of cork.
In fact, this scarlet acts more like a garter snake, gopher snake, or other diurnal sight hunter. It is commonly out and about, patrolling the cage, and totally unafraid when I come to watch it. Next to my Sonoran gopher snake, I would have to call it the best display snake in my collection, although I know that the scarlets are generally considered quite secretive.
In your own experience, would the conditioning in the open that I used with the night snake also work out with this unusually active scarlet? Thanks!
-----
DAVE

1.0 Western green toad
1.1 green treefrogs
1.0 Florida blue garter snake
1.1 Oriental fire-bellied toads
1.0 American bullfrog
0.1 Spanish ribbed newt
0.0.1 Eastern ribbon snake
1.1 red-cheeked mud turtles
0.1 Dubia day gecko
1.0 Sonoran gopher snake
0.1 rough green snakes
1.1 giant African black millipedes
1.0 Okeetee corn snake
0.1 Albino African clawed frog
1.0 Kenyan sand boa
0.0.1 Argentine flame-bellied toadlet
0.0.1 African bullfrog
1.0 yellow * Everglades rat snake intergrade
1.1 Western hognose snakes
1.2 fire salamanders
1.0 scarlet kingsnake
0.0.1 Argentine horned frog
0.1 Southern ringneck snakes
1.0 Florida scarletsnake
0.0.1 Florida brown snake
0.0.1 Northern brown snake
0.0.1 Smooth earth snake
0.0.2 Western worm snakes
"And tons of garters and ribbons are being born in the reptile room this very minute..."

That is quite odd and leads me to think you have a heat pad under the cage for the scarlet. If so, the heat is driving it to the top. They do not require a heat pad anyway as they live in the ground most of their lives. I have hundreds of snakes and have kept them for 30 years and never used one heat pad. Heat pads stink, stank, and stunk. They are reverse for the natural process for a snake. Heat comes from above, not below unless your on a volcano. The heat pads cook the food in the snakes belly and it often leads to sick snakes. Take all your heat pads and burn them. Use tube lightening or a small heat lamp with a 25 watt bulb for your snakes. And you have not had that scarlet long enough for it to get accustomed to a hide cave. I use those plastic caves and pressure them against the mulch and after a few months the snake will start using it more often then not. It works also with my coral snakes. Vice them all hiding under the mulch, I can now see them coiled in their hide boxes which is more appealing to at least see them.

Dan

Hello Dan,

Congragulations! You are the first person I have found online to agree with my philosophy that undertank heaters are just plain unnatural. All of my herps that I use heat for are given both heat and light via a basking bulb. For some burrowing herps like worm snakes, for a thermal gradient, I place a flat rock atop the substrate, and shine the heat lamp over it, to create a warm subterranean hiding place for the snake(s).
I am currently not using a heat source of any kind for the scarlet snake, as the temperature in my reptile room is usually around 85 degrees anyway. I gave it lots of mulch to burrow into.
Also, about that neat little Kukuri snake, what size vivarium are you currently keeping it in? Thanks!
-----
DAVE

1.0 Western green toad
1.1 green treefrogs
1.0 Florida blue garter snake
1.1 Oriental fire-bellied toads
1.0 American bullfrog
0.1 Spanish ribbed newt
0.0.1 Eastern ribbon snake
1.1 red-cheeked mud turtles
0.1 Dubia day gecko
1.0 Sonoran gopher snake
0.1 rough green snakes
1.1 giant African black millipedes
1.0 Okeetee corn snake
0.1 Albino African clawed frog
1.0 Kenyan sand boa
0.0.1 Argentine flame-bellied toadlet
0.0.1 African bullfrog
1.0 yellow * Everglades rat snake intergrade
1.1 Western hognose snakes
1.2 fire salamanders
1.0 scarlet kingsnake
0.0.1 Argentine horned frog
0.1 Southern ringneck snakes
1.0 Florida scarletsnake
0.0.1 Florida brown snake
0.0.1 Northern brown snake
0.0.1 Smooth earth snake
0.0.2 Western worm snakes
"And tons of garters and ribbons are being born in the reptile room this very minute..."

The kukuri is in a 10 gallon. Oh, 85 is a bit warm for all those types of ground snakes. Just a few inches beneath the ground its about 70 degrees. I would go for a low of 70 and high of 80 for the scarlet snake. Even in florida when its the hottest, scarlet snakes are deep in the ground and only emerge if there is a big rain and they are flooded out of their spots. In most instances a tube light is sufficient to keep the temp up there but tanks usually hold in the heat so they only need to be turned on only a few hours a day. A even a 25 watt bulb in a heat lamp makes a 10 heat up to over 90 degrees which is not tolerated by many snakes for too long. They will roam and roam to find a cooler spot.

Dan

Hi Dan,

Thank you very much for the advice. There is plenty of mulch for the scarlet snake, and I have also placed the vivarium in a spot closer to the a/c. The last time I checked, it was a few degrees under 75. Very helpful tips. It has been hard for me to locate additional info on the natural history of Cemophora Coccinea, so it is appreciated.
I am exciited about what you said about how vendors almost never treat the snakes for parasites, and this specimen may be only one of few who have been treated with the promise of a long life.. I'll have to post pictures, beause this snake is super-clean, and very gorgeous. I'll follow through.
-----
DAVE

1.0 Western green toad
1.1 green treefrogs
1.0 Florida blue garter snake
1.1 Oriental fire-bellied toads
1.0 American bullfrog
0.1 Spanish ribbed newt
0.0.1 Eastern ribbon snake
1.1 red-cheeked mud turtles
0.1 Dubia day gecko
1.0 Sonoran gopher snake
0.1 rough green snakes
1.1 giant African black millipedes
1.0 Okeetee corn snake
0.1 Albino African clawed frog
1.0 Kenyan sand boa
0.0.1 Argentine flame-bellied toadlet
0.0.1 African bullfrog
1.0 yellow * Everglades rat snake intergrade
1.1 Western hognose snakes
1.2 fire salamanders
1.0 scarlet kingsnake
0.0.1 Argentine horned frog
0.1 Southern ringneck snakes
1.0 Florida scarletsnake
0.0.1 Florida brown snake
0.0.1 Northern brown snake
0.0.1 Smooth earth snake
0.0.2 Western worm snakes
"And tons of garters and ribbons are being born in the reptile room this very minute..."

I replied to your email but it came back undeliverable?

Experience has taught me that sellers who say they treated snakes for parasites are more likely the ones that never do. Not to discredit who sold you the snake, but if someone told me they treated a snake. I would laugh first and ask them who are they kidding. I have seen thousands of imported snakes that were advertized as treated snakes and not a one was treated or treated properly. The best I have seen is a soaking in some pancur water and they hope the snakes will drink it? I think the medicated water burns the eyes of the snakes and its a waste of time.

Dan

Oh my goodness! That is very disturbing to me. Hopefully that is not what happened, but it sounds as though that horrific "treatment" is very common. Nonetheless, it is a really, really clean animal to be wild-caught (and for some reason it smells very strongly of fresh orange peel) and I want to give it the best life possible. The scarlet, who has a belly full of egg right now, is finally using a hiding spot. That advice was very helpful. Thank you.
About your e-mail, do you have an msn adress? For some reason, the e-mail service I use will not take messages from msn.
-----
DAVE

1.0 Western green toad
1.1 green treefrogs
1.0 Florida blue garter snake
1.1 Oriental fire-bellied toads
1.0 American bullfrog
0.1 Spanish ribbed newt
0.0.1 Eastern ribbon snake
1.1 red-cheeked mud turtles
0.1 Dubia day gecko
1.0 Sonoran gopher snake
0.1 rough green snakes
1.1 giant African black millipedes
1.0 Okeetee corn snake
0.1 Albino African clawed frog
1.0 Kenyan sand boa
0.0.1 Argentine flame-bellied toadlet
0.0.1 African bullfrog
1.0 yellow * Everglades rat snake intergrade
1.1 Western hognose snakes
1.2 fire salamanders
1.0 scarlet kingsnake
0.0.1 Argentine horned frog
0.1 Southern ringneck snakes
1.0 Florida scarletsnake
0.0.1 Florida brown snake
0.0.1 Northern brown snake
0.0.1 Smooth earth snake
0.0.2 Western worm snakes
"And tons of garters and ribbons are being born in the reptile room this very minute..."

Actually its AOL. Perhaps you should call them and let them know your having problems receiving from AOL.

Dan

I forgot to tell you that your snake may be roaming for water. Scarlets need a lot of water and need a moist spot to keep in contact with or they dehydrate easily. And another thing is that sometimes I offered an egg scented pink in a cup at night and it would be there until 7 oclock the next morning. When I would check at noon, it was gone telling me that they roam in the early morning to eat or drink dew?

Dan

Hi Dan,

I mist the pre-moistened mulch quite often. Yesterday, I was astounded at how much scarlets drink. He went over to a cold bowl of water, gulped it all down, and then went over to a chicken egg, and gulped that all down. True to what you said, I have observed the snake prowling the cage from about 6 AM to 8 AM numerous times. He took his first pinky yesterday.
-----
DAVE

1.0 Western green toad
1.1 green treefrogs
1.0 Florida blue garter snake
1.1 Oriental fire-bellied toads
1.0 American bullfrog
0.1 Spanish ribbed newt
0.0.1 Eastern ribbon snake
1.1 red-cheeked mud turtles
0.1 Dubia day gecko
1.0 Sonoran gopher snake
0.1 rough green snakes
1.1 giant African black millipedes
1.0 Okeetee corn snake
0.1 Albino African clawed frog
1.0 Kenyan sand boa
0.0.1 Argentine flame-bellied toadlet
0.0.1 African bullfrog
1.0 yellow * Everglades rat snake intergrade
1.1 Western hognose snakes
1.2 fire salamanders
1.0 scarlet kingsnake
0.0.1 Argentine horned frog
0.1 Southern ringneck snakes
1.0 Florida scarletsnake
0.0.1 Florida brown snake
0.0.1 Northern brown snake
0.0.1 Smooth earth snake
0.0.2 Western worm snakes
"And tons of garters and ribbons are being born in the reptile room this very minute..."

A question: Why go through the effort of the transition to pinkies or other solid food? This snake is an egg specialist, presumably they are quite well adapted to a diet of egg. I can understand trying to transition a snake to pinkies from lizards or frogs - those are hard to come by, but what is cheaper and easier to get than eggs?

I am not aware of any documentation or instances in which scarlets have been kept long term on a strict chicken egg diet, or reptile egg diet for that matter. And other people have gotten them to eat skinks and lizards, and I know of others that have seen them eat live fuzzy mice. We really do not know or have not communicated what sustains them in the long term, so a pinkie mouse is not going to hurt. And even if converted to a rodent diet, it would be best to offer egg once and a while just in case. And scarlet snakes eat small eggs whole like carpenter ant eggs and anole eggs, so there is nutrition in the shells they do not receive from eating a strict diet of chicken egg (perhaps calcium). In any event, it would seem that the nutrition value of a pinkie should help sustain them longer then without it. Now it could lead to a fatty liver or something else, but we cannot rule it out if we do not try it.

I could buy the argument that maybe some minerals in the shells of the smaller eggs that scarlet snakes eat would be lacking in a diet of pure egg contents, but in an admittedly quick google search I found a lot of references to scarlet snakes biting open reptile eggs with enlarged rear teeth and feeding on the contents - basically emptying out the shells. I agree also that pinkies are probably more nutrient-dense than chicken eggs, but (as you recognize with the liver point) that does not mean that scarlet snakes are best adapted to eating a nutrient-dense diet.

I found one reference online to scarlet snake diet in an article whose info I have posted below. I am no longer in school, so I don't have easy access to journal articles, but if anyone reading this does and maybe could do a journal search on cemophora gut content and diet studies for more info, it might be cool to post a sort of brief on what the actual studies have shown.

Brisbin, I. L., Jr. and C. Bagshaw. 1993. Survival, weight changes, and shedding frequencies of captive scarlet snakes, Cemophora coccinea, maintained on an artificial liquid diet. Herp. Review 24(1):27-29.

I am aware they have specialized teeth to slice open large eggs. And I observed them winding and withering their necks after drinking eggs as if they were trying to expell or vomit an egg shell much like an egg eating snake does. And I am aware of another fellow who did keep them on a strict diet of chicken egg and after a couple of years they all died? For what reason, he does not know, but perhaps the contents of reptile eggs is different? In either case, when some wild caughts pounce on a skink or a fuzzy you have to figure they do eat other stuff which may supplement their diet, especially during the non-egg laying season? Either case, these are very interesting snakes with interesting diets and we need to learn more about them. I will try to find information on that article. Thanks. Oh, some have reported they ate crickets so pehaps particular insects and larvae make up their diet also?

Dan

In the wild I imagine most of the eggs the scarlets eat are going to be fertile. This means that they're going to have embryos at various levels of development. A diet a straight infertile chicken eggs may lack the nutrients the scarlet would normally get from the consumption of the embryo. I wonder if the scarlets would have faired better if fed fertile chicken eggs containing embryos the snake could eat too?

-Alice

Yea, that might be better but what if we have feathers involved? I cannot have a snake coughing up feather balls like a cat.

Dan

LOL. But, I don't think feathers would be an issue. The chicken embryos don't develop feathers until the last stages of development, so basically it would be a full size chick and your scarlet would have to be a monster. Also, isn't it likely that scarlets would be willing to prey on the eggs of ground nesting birds in the wild as these eggs would be small and easy to access? And if this is the case, they're likely well equipped to deal with baby down.

-Alice

Hi everyone,

Yesterday, at the college library, I found an amazing book, in two volumes: "SNAKES OF THE UNITED STATES AND CANADA- Keeping them healthy in captivity." The scarlet snake section is extremely helpful. It states that the scarlet snake is undoubtedly the toughest snake to keep in captivity in the eastern United States.
The ease of care for each species in the book is rated on a scale of 1-5, with 1 being the easiest, and 5 being the hardest. Cemophora Coccinea recieved a 5 .
Anyway, the author reccomends scrambling the eggs, shell and all, before offering them to the snake. He says that scrambling the whole egg makes the shell and the yolk more nutritious or something. Anyway, interesting stuff. I am still excited though that this snake took a pinky so soon.
-----
DAVE

1.0 Western green toad
1.1 green treefrogs
1.0 Florida blue garter snake
1.1 Oriental fire-bellied toads
1.0 American bullfrog
0.1 Spanish ribbed newt
0.0.1 Eastern ribbon snake
1.1 red-cheeked mud turtles
0.1 Dubia day gecko
1.0 Sonoran gopher snake
0.1 rough green snakes
1.1 giant African black millipedes
1.0 Okeetee corn snake
0.1 Albino African clawed frog
1.0 Kenyan sand boa
0.0.1 Argentine flame-bellied toadlet
0.0.1 African bullfrog
1.0 yellow * Everglades rat snake intergrade
1.1 Western hognose snakes
1.2 fire salamanders
1.0 scarlet kingsnake
0.0.1 Argentine horned frog
0.1 Southern ringneck snakes
1.0 Florida scarletsnake
0.0.1 Florida brown snake
0.0.1 Northern brown snake
0.0.1 Smooth earth snake
0.0.2 Western worm snakes
"And tons of garters and ribbons are being born in the reptile room this very minute..."

I imagine you could house a pair together and have you considered that as they are sadly all wild caught and yours sounds like he has adapted very nicely to captivity.

Hi,

This specimen is indeed adjusting well to captive life, but I will most likely not breed these guys. Here is why:

1. It is hard for me to find a female his size and condition (he is a male.)

2. I normally do not breed. Most breedings in my collection are accidental (although I do love it when I am treated to witnessing the miracle of reptile birth firsthand.)

3. I have kept a baby scarlet before. The babies seem much more nervous, weak, and shy than the adults. It is also hard to find any solid food large enough for a captive scarlet to eat. In the wild, such snakes probably prey upon things that we do not even think of.

4. If anyone has had any success breeding these elusive serpents, I would love to hear about it. Nonetheless, for now I am happy with just one beautiful scarlet, and I want to give him the best life in captivity possible.

Thank you for the suggestion, however.
-----
DAVE

1.0 Western green toad
1.1 green treefrogs
1.0 Florida blue garter snake
1.1 Oriental fire-bellied toads
1.0 American bullfrog
0.1 Spanish ribbed newt
0.0.1 Eastern ribbon snake
1.1 red-cheeked mud turtles
0.1 Dubia day gecko
1.0 Sonoran gopher snake
0.1 rough green snakes
1.1 giant African black millipedes
1.0 Okeetee corn snake
0.1 Albino African clawed frog
1.0 Kenyan sand boa
0.0.1 Argentine flame-bellied toadlet
0.0.1 African bullfrog
1.0 yellow * Everglades rat snake intergrade
1.1 Western hognose snakes
1.2 fire salamanders
1.0 scarlet kingsnake
0.0.1 Argentine horned frog
0.1 Southern ringneck snakes
1.0 Florida scarletsnake
0.0.1 Florida brown snake
0.0.1 Northern brown snake
0.0.1 Smooth earth snake
0.0.2 Western worm snakes
"And tons of garters and ribbons are being born in the reptile room this very minute..."

Actually I suggested it because I would like to buy a CB scarlet. So it was done with a "sneaky" motive lol.
Your males tempermeant sounds great so figured that trait might pass on .