Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Got a question for you. After reading some thought provoking posts over on the kingsnake forum I've been thinking about maybe taking a nice plastic rack like the APs and using three slots to house one animal.

I thought I could drill a one or two inch hole through the floor of the top two slots (toward the front to prevent catching a snake in it) and then drill similar holes in the boxes and then glue a tube around the holes in the boxes to prevent substrate falling out and then only heat the top box allowing the snake to got to the top for heat or the center for a little less and the bottom for cool temps. What do you think?

I could still use the rack with plain boxes for a regular set up. Thanks, BobS

np

>> I thought I could drill a one or two inch hole through the floor of the top two slots (toward the front to prevent catching a snake in it) and then drill similar holes in the boxes and then glue a tube around the holes in the boxes to prevent substrate falling out and then only heat the top box allowing the snake to got to the top for heat or the center for a little less and the bottom for cool temps. What do you think?

Hi Bob,

So the pipe would be attached to the boxes only? The pipe would simply line up with the hole on the shelf?

I think that will work, although you might want to have a small spring clamp that keeps the box perfectly centered over the hole. I would also be inclined to have a bigger hole, just in case the holes were not perfectly lined up.

I think you should try it and let us all know how it works.

Chris
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Current snakes:

1.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

2.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

4.3 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

I'll let you know if I wind up doing it. Have a good day!

Intriguing idea, but I would vote against it if using regular light-weight boxes like the store-bought Rubbermaids, Sterilites, etc. Too much flex, not rigid enough, can't glue the pipe down well.

I think the connected-cage idea is best suited for front-opening cages.

Let me offer you this. I have some cages from www.herpcages.com. I set up two cages side-by-side but with about a 4" separation, measured some PVC pipe and cut the holes to connect the cages with 2 PVC pipes. One cage is heated, one isn't. I haven't put a snake in yet, but soon.

This is part of a project I'm trying to see how the snakes behave with a larger area and with temperature choices. Will the snake (cornsnake for this test) spend most time in the heated cage or the cool cage? Fun fun fun. Much more fun than keeping a snake in a sweater box. Maybe this will be the 4th-wave of reptile keeping. How about keeping multiple snakes in connected caging? I think Bob Applegate is doing this now, along with some other folks.

Join the "Sweaterboxes are Boring" team.

Interesting! Maybe I should try it with the AP cages, go 3 high, light and heat the top level(maybe pot some Pothos etc.)
Second level I would think might get some spillover heat and I could dampen the substrate and bottom level maybe dry and cool. No lighting on the bottom 2 and maybe Black out/tint or put a screened/patterned overlay on the glass to provide security?

Neodesha used to have these slide vent type coverings. It would be neat to install somethin like that on the cages that could be secured for normal use later. Like a Habatrail for snakes.

I get a BAD feeling about doing the ball that rolls around on the floor with the snake inside though......

I have Neodesha display type cages and recently finally went and got into racks after years of not being comfortable with keeping animals in them. Tough issue. It does make extreme clean easier especially for snakes that want to hide all the time anyway but.....

Just went to the AP site. A T12 on top of 2 T10s then on top of a base sounds great. The T12 4'x2'x2' could be set up naturally(lite, plants, heat, etc.)You might even be able to replace the doors for the botom 2 with the same black plastic the cage is made of if you wanted.And for those of us that aren't gifted like the rest of you with building skills the cost of their cages is VERY reasonable!

With a little effort you could probably set this up like an office saltwater tank and if you added a small colony of well behaved individuals you increase the chances of seeing an individual in the veiwable top container and could section off the other 2 for feeding safely..

So...What do the "PROS" think? ( you guys are real helpful)

I can't argue the ease of maintenance that racks offer, and their effectiveness with snake breeding. I also can't argue that some species like rosy boas and sand boas are right at home in a sweaterbox and may prefer it to a more open cage.

But, like someone else stated on these forums, it is becoming evident that newcomers think racks are the only way to keep snakes. It would be a disservice to us all if nobody tries to break away from that and see if it makes a positive difference in breeding and overall health of the animals.

I can say this as well: my colubrids kept in display-type cages with overhead heat will thermoregulate throughout the day by basking under the heat for awhile, moving away for awhile, then back, etc etc. When in a shed cycle, they stay in the cooler area. You just don't notice this behavior as much in a sweaterbox, mainly because the snake doesn't have the same type of temp gradient or room to move as far away from the heat.
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Mark G

"Sweaterboxes are boring"

I hear you. I have some Leucistic Black rats I've had for years and have them in 6' Neodeshas and while not "special" or cutting edge captives, it's a real kick to go down to the cellar for some kind of chore and see them gracefully stretched out on branches or somehow in the cage.They are fantastic display animals, hardly EVER hiding. I had a display cage with Nelsons Milks for a long time too and even though they are Milks they would also hang out in the open ALOT. (if only I could get Gaigeae to do that) Good luck Mark.

I'm also shifting away from the use of plastic boxes, although in my case the boxes I use are much larger than the typical sweater box. I realize this is sort of ironic given I just got those expensive Vision racks, but those were purchased for quarantine and growing up young snakes. My adults I plan to keep in large, planted vivaria.

Not too long ago there was a thread on using sweater boxes in a hidden compartment below a regular display cage. I have not done this in many years but think it is a great idea. Basically a single level of lidless rack below a cage.

Underneath a typical display cage you could likely fit three boxes. One that would act as a warm hide, another as a cool hide, and a third as a hidden water bowl.
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Current snakes:

1.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

2.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

4.3 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

This is all very interesting. I appreciate knocking this around with you guys. Stay well. BobS

Chris, on a multi level unit, say for the sake of argument, 3or4 AP type sliding glass type cages connected on top of one another... Rather than blacking out the lower glass to mimic underground it would be nice to view without pulling out a sweater box or drawer.

Would two way glass panes be realistic or do you think the reflection would add stress to "see" other snakes?

What about tinted glass with the lower levels being slightly iluminated with very low wattage blue bulbs or LEDs?

I think I would like to go for an appealing looking set-up as well as providing the ant farm concept.

Thanks for any thoughts. BobS

>>Would two way glass panes be realistic or do you think the reflection would add stress to "see" other snakes?

I believe this experiment has been attempted in the zoo field and failed. I'm not 100% sure about that, though. I have toured a lot of zoos and talked caging/exhibits and I have never run across it.

>>What about tinted glass with the lower levels being slightly iluminated with very low wattage blue bulbs or LEDs?

That sounds like a good idea. Some of the blue rope light might be cool.
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Current snakes:

1.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

2.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

4.3 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

np

Use it to breed BRB's, each section is 2'x2',18". All interconnected with 4" PVC (originally was 3" but one of my gravid females got stuck one time, got her out OK and her babies were fine but didn't want a repeat. All entrances to the tubes can be plugged with threaded plugs. Now that my BRB's are done breeding, have each section blocked off with one BRB per section until after they give birth. I do notice they will cruise they whole cage, someitmes to cooler sections adn sometimes to warmer sections. They sometimes even all congregate in the same section. I have two of these units.

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Thanks,

Dave "Rainbows-R-Us"

0.1 Wife
0.2 kids
4.12 Brazilian Rainbow Boa
1.1 Ball python
0.1 BCI "Elvira" normal from 1989
1.0 BCI albino / het-anery
0.1 BCI Hypo / het-albino
0.1 BCI Anery / het-albino
0.1 BCI Hypo (possible super)

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Thanks. Nice pics too. Nice bunch of thinking went into that.

Each level is a seperate cage? Cool to the left and warm to the right?

Each level is two seperate cages. Four levels, 8 seperate cages. The top level and the bottom level are connected along with vertical tubing connecting all four levels. I vary the heat by level with the warmer side of each section being tward the middle of the level.

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Thanks,

Dave "Rainbows-R-Us"

0.1 Wife
0.2 kids
4.12 Brazilian Rainbow Boa
1.1 Ball python
0.1 BCI "Elvira" normal from 1989
1.0 BCI albino / het-anery
0.1 BCI Hypo / het-albino
0.1 BCI Anery / het-albino
0.1 BCI Hypo (possible super)

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

I am intrigued by this idea of multi level caging. I realize it's not an entirely "new" idea, but as others have described a sort of ant farm or habatrail sort of caging option it's really piqued my interest. I'm generally interested in keeping the few animals well than letting myself get everything I like and being overwhelmed or keeping them ho-hum.

also the thought of keeping a "colony" of individuals in an "antfarm " sort of cage is appealling to see how they interact with each other (lot of talk of that recently on the Kingsnake Forum)

Thanks again. Like your cage!