Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey Jake, I hope you like these. A little history...Mom is of an unknown bloodline...Her Genetics is in my opinion the main cause for the look of the babies. The male however, is a Rich Ihle male (K Grade). He was sold to me as a possible super, however he did not prove out. One thing that I notice is that both animals have those dots between saddles. Do they meen anything? Who knows. Mom is one of the most solidly built adults I have ever seen. She is extremely muscular. She has that sharp edge cut nose, and very light look. I will understand more about her genetics after future breedings. I have chose to name the line The Incredibles. Seeing as how this bloodline starts with me, I understand this to be the correct way to approach this. Hope you like the pics...To everyone...let me know your opinions. Thanks, Andy Federico

Andy, don't want to stir up any $hit but I found it interesting in your post that you said "I have chose to name the line The Incredibles. Seeing as how this bloodline starts with me."

I'd like to interject, in my opinion this bloodline technically started with a Salmon from Rich to your female? Correct? Therefore it didn't 'start' with you. With that you're naming a line after breeding an animal from someone else's very very very established line to your animal to produce an arbitrarily named new line. Again I don't feel that it is truely 'your' line. It is 50% your line but you can't rightfully name it the AJF/ISLE line?

Just my thoughts on this issue. Again they are stunning animals but the sire was a salmon therfore they are not technically a 'new' line.

All the best,
Justin Higgs

Andy, don't want to stir up any $hit but I found it interesting in your post that you said "I have chose to name the line The Incredibles. Seeing as how this bloodline starts with me."

I'd like to interject, in my opinion this bloodline technically started with a Salmon from Rich to your female? Correct? Therefore it didn't 'start' with you. With that you're naming a line after breeding an animal from someone else's very very very established line to your animal to produce an arbitrarily named new line. Again I don't feel that it is truely 'your' line. It is 50% your line but you can't rightfully name it the AJF/ISLE line?

Just my thoughts on this issue. Again they are stunning animals but the sire was a salmon therfore they are not technically a 'new' line.

All the best,
Justin Higgs

I appreciate any and all comments. If the Salmon is a factor in the name of the line, then how has everyone else that names thier lines able to do so? All salmons and Hypos come from Rich Ihle and Jeff Gee, so that should rule out everyones names. I chose the name as a direct reflection of the characteristics of the boas produced. They will continue to be produced and Lord willing will show new incredible aspects as time goes on. The Genetics of the Mom in this situation is the factor, as I have bred the male Salmon to 2 other females as well and none of those litters showed even close to this litter. If I am wrong in choosing a name for a line I produced that no-one else can produce, could you please provide me with a better understanding as to how those who name thier lines have done the same.

There are highly respected names out there that have produced Salmon boas and call them thier own line names...Just explain why?

To Rich Ihle, If I am wrong in doing this please let me know. I am not by any meens trying to cut in on your glory, you have earned this. I am only trying to do what I thought was right here. Andy

"There are highly respected names out there that have produced Salmon boas and call them thier own line names...Just explain why?"

Who?

Name a few examples and I'll explain it for you.

I'll throw out a quick example:

Scarlet Hypos: Jeff Ronnes (well established over many generations and proven phenotype) pastel line mixed with a hypo line (either gee or salmon).

Requirement: Well established and proven phenotype.

Is your "line" well established and a proven phenotype? Far from it from my observation.

I would rather leave names out of the equation. I am quite new to all of this, and I will discontinue calling them the incredibles, if some sort of sensible explaination can be given to me as to why. I have been told by others to just forget Kingsnake as the people here can attack you and try to ruin you if you are not in the click. I decided to stick around anyway. I am a fair and honest man. I can take the truth. Can you?
I found a way to make a living doing something I actually love to do.
I do not wonder why there are those that just by-pass my posts while other posts get a response. It is very clear as to what's going on.
I will continue to share my info to help others breed their boas...I believe the more people breeding boas the better our chances for survival in this market. Think of it as network marketing..the more you bring in and make successful the more sales go up.
I only said that because, some people do not like the fact that I am willing to share openly my success at breeding boas.

I wish people would be more honest and open, and just explain what I should do about nameing the line of boas I produced.
Just a note here...I believe the female passes her Genetics Co-dominantly...I know it will take more breedings to prove this, but does that change anything?
If I breed a Salmon to a Salmon, I get a Salmon ...Rich Ihle is the factor in that...If I breed a Salmon het to Salmon het and produce a Sunglow...Whose is that? How about Ghost? How about a Jungle?

Someone needs to really define this hobby/Business and come up with some rules or standards...
Such as with dogs...AKC, UKC...

Like I said I am new here, but I will not just go away.

Andy Federico

Okay, Andy, here's my opinion on naming. I breed boas and I'm probably the ten thousandth person to do so. I'd really hate to see every breeder great and small come up with a line name for every animal they sell. There are tons of BCI albinos out there but to my knowledge there are only two known strains Kahl and Sharp. Now take every mojo that ever breeds these animals calling each their own line and you can imagine what a mess it would be. Your hypos are very nice but there are many other people with equal to or, believe it or not, actually nicer ones. Should they name theirs "ultra incredibles?" A good quality animal coupled with a good reputation is what sells animals, not a line name. Focus on producing great animals and deal in an honest and professional manner and your animals will sell themselves. Skip the hype, hoopla, and fanfare unless you really come up with something proven and unusual like a motley, arabesque, or leopard boa for example. Most people know where these animals originated and I guarantee the corresponding breeders don't have a problem selling them without a line name.

There is no click just people who have been doing this for years and know the ins and outs and simply happen to be good friends because they’ve been in the trenches together. You don't just jump in an earn credibility. You earn it, you’ll be there! It comes from, great animals, great business, and great ethics. You have this and we encourage you to continue with it. Just because you didn't originate a new boa, doesn't mean that you’re not an interracial part of this community.

Come down to the expo in Daytona meet everyone in person hang out, have some beers and soak up the knowledge. It’s a wonderful hobby and we are by in no way attacking you or want you to believe that we are attempting to hurt your reputation or want you to leave. Don't get discouraged just heed the advice, learn and apply. Hey I’m still learning, not even close to a pro, but listen to Jeremy, Pete, Jeff, Mike and many others who have been doing this forever and soak it up like a sponge. We encourage you to do the same, that’s what these forums are for, other then people posting pictures of animals that I’ll never be able to afford.

Either way those hypos will sell themselves, they're awesome maybe even incredible, but just call them salmons until further breeding and or determinations can be ascertained.

All the best,
Justin

Thank you Justin, for a more detailed understanding. I honestly understand what you are saying. I realize I may be a bit hastey and jump the gun, ..alot. I enjoy breeding boas, so that's what I'll do. Maybe I will get to Daytona, and meet you all and gleen some of the history of this industry. Thanks Andy

I don't know who you are, but Thanks. I may be just too Hastey. Thanks Andy