Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Three to four days ago the last baby pine from clutch one slid from it's egg. All seven babies are in various stages of blue already for their first shed. Well one egg was left, and no signs of pipping. So I figured I'd lost it, so I took my little surgical scissors and made a careful slit down the middle. Fluid came oozing out, then I cut a small slice at an angle, and opened up to have a look. I can see a whitish mass at one end of the egg, the egg yolk? And I could see red blood vessels trailing around, and lo and behold, a grayish white head on top of the coils. And it moved, ever so slightly, but the baby was apparently alive yet. So I placed the egg back into the egg box, but I don't know, have I killed this baby by doing this? I broke my own rule, in saying, if it doesn't come out on it's own, it wasn't meant to live. Yet I feel awful, cause maybe this guy just wasn't done "cooking" yet. Yet odd, this clutch took a week to hatch, where the second clutch is hatching fast and furious. So we'll see I guess, I'm just sick to my stomach cause from the look of that light gray on the head, which in baby Northerns, is what you look for if your wanting that high white high contrast so many of us love. But at least there wasn't any bleeding, so it wasn't like I was cutting blood vessels and tissue. So we'll see what happens. I know I've read in other places how, if babies don't pip after so many days, people cut the eggs to make sure the babies can come out. Yet I don't think this poor guy was ready for any help yet! I've had corns do this, but those babies are already dead when I go to cut open the egg to see what's happened. I just didn't want to let the egg sit there and rot, cause I just assumed the little one had died. Live and learn I guess! So to those breeders out there, learn from me, when in doubt, give them an extra week! But then who knows, perhaps I've only opened the egg to a weak baby who was going to die anyhow, I don't know. But I'm hoping that the cut I made doesn't leak too bad, and just maybe the baby can finish developing. I'll keep you updated. As for Tiny the Twin, he still seems be doing ok, but I have to take that first hurdle, and get him to eat. If I can get him feeding, I know he'll make it. We know how these guys are pigs! His cousin is a year old now, and he's already 44 inches long! Crazy! Here's a pic from yesterday of that yearling male.

I do not think you did anything wrong. If the others are all OK then it is my guess that the last one IS fully formed,,,,it just wasn't ready to come out of the egg yet. I have cut eggs and spilled out a lot of fluid and saw snakes crawl out 24-48 hours who did just fine. I even had a Corn come flying out of the egg with a huge yolk sack attached. I put the snake in a deli cup with damp paper towel and put it back in the incubator. The sack shriveled and fell off and I have that snake 3 years later. I am pretty much with you as far as not cutting eggs. Some people do and have their reasons but I usually will not cut them. Occasionally I get the impression the humidity in the egg box has become to dry and I have seen snakes with thier heads stuck in the slit they have created. Then I will intervene. I think some people do it because they're impatient and just can't wait. I hope your snake makes it, if you see any movement at all my guess is he will pip soon, and spend another day or two in the egg before soming out. Tom Stevens

russell, they'll most probably hatch out anyway, i wouldn't worry.....i just did the same exact thing this week myself [to 2 bull eggs] and they both made it out easily. good luck!......

Thanks guys! I need that encouragement! Cause it looked like a real nice one! I did check a bit ago, just cause I couldn't help myself, and now it just looks like an egg with a slit, with a bit of fluid oozing out the one end of the slit, I also have to think it'll be just fine. Just a real slow baby! I had a handful of pinkie mice the other day born to a mouse group that had bigger fuzzies and hoppers, so I decided to feed them off, put the whole litter in with the first clutch of pines, and only three pinks were left, so some of the baby pines have already eaten! But I know Tiny hasn't eaten yet. Though I notice he's going to be a pretty one if he makes it! Just some more sit and wait time I guess.
Russell

Russel, I know a few guys who consider this a secret....and I do not mind sharing it because most people will not pay too much attention to this. Some friends of mine have told me when they look for snakes at any given show it is the smallest snake on the table they want to see. In some cases it seems the end up being the best looking and hardiest of the clutch. I can not tell you why? However the people who mentioned this to me have been breeding for 20 plus years. It is logical to think the "runt" may be flawed...and will struggle through life. But I do know guys who tell me it is definitely not a given, and may be exactly the opposite. Last year I had a Brooksi that was tinier than the rest, matter of fact he would not eat period. Well over 2 months passed and suddenly his body weight declined rapidly. I am anti-force feeding so I let him be. One day he ate a pinky. The lump in his belley was gone in 24 hours. It then ate 2 or 3 pinkies every 3 days for 2 months and caught up with the others and had the strongest feeding response out of all of them. Your runt Pine most likely received the short end of the stick as far as yolk while in the egg, but keep it well hydrated and baby him and hopefully he will make a triumphant comeback and begin to thrive. The pics you posted are very nice, good luck with your new snakes Tom Stevens

Yep!
I agree, just cause they start out smaller than the rest, doesn't mean they don't have what it takes to become something great. I'm supposed to be shipping the whole lot to someone, but don't know if Tiny will be going with, might be a bit delicate, but who knows?! Might just surprise me! I just have to be patient and see what the next couple weeks bring me. Only have one egg left to pip and two babies yet to come out of their slit up eggs in the second clutch. Sure were some BIG babies in that bunch! But no wonder, their mom is also six and a half feet long! If I had the space, I'd raise them all for a year, and then make my decision of who to sell, and who to keep, cause they sure do change a lot in that first year!
Russell

I did the exact same thing with my first black rat snake clutch. I cut open one of the last unhatched eggs, and saw the fully-formed animal. I was certain I doomed it. I placed it in a seperate container from the other 3 unhatched eggs. In the next 48 hours the other 3 hatched. Then I remembered I had yet to throw away the cut egg. Reckoning the egg would be quite ripe at this point, I went to dispose it. I opened the container lid and was astounded to see a live hatchling spring out like a Jack-In-The-Box, sporting a defiant S-coil, an agape mouth, and vibrating tail. "Yeah, I'd be angry too..." I reassured him and apologized.

(Fantastic photos, by the way! Thanks for sharing!)

Monty