Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Are vieleds/any lizard incabable of feeling affection or love, just a curious thought. I would say yes but I am looking for your point of view.

yes. As much as we would like to believe they have emotions in the same sense as humans, it just isn't so. Learned behavior can sometimes be confused with a "feeling" or "thought" from your cham (e.g. comes to front of cage when you appear = s/he knows you have food, or a way out

We tend to anthropomorphize (give human attributes/characteristics to other organisms) where most any pet is concerned. It makes US feel better to think we are communicating somehow, and not that we aren't communicating to the them, but their response is not the same as a (most human reponse.

It is always an interesting topic for discussion and if this thread takes off (and it may well) you will see the many points of view, philosophies and opinions.

lele
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Chameleon Help & Resource Info

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While I respect Ms. Lele's opinions, I would have to disagree (the only time I think I ever have!!) While they may not show affection "mammal" styleI do believe they show preferences/affection reptile style. We neither feed from hand and have huge cages so "an out" is not an option. However, 1 of my four chams does show preference and affection for my husband. Content to just sit on his hand. He follows him with his eyes, and his coloration is relaxed. I cannot explain it. It is not for food, (we do not hand feed). It is not a way out of the cage. There is an actual preference being shown. We have actually performed experiments to this end. So,while it is not a "mammal-type" affection, I do believe it is affection as far as a reptile can show. I also believe it is not the norm, as only 1/4 display this. The others are either antisocial or do just come for the food or a day out.....

This is all of course just from my personal experience and IMHO.

I believe what Lele was saying was that Reptiles are incapable of showing HIGHER emotions, such as love or affection. It is possible to show how a reptile might show preferance towards a person, human, reptile or otherwise, I don't think this is the same as showing true affection.
Yes, certain reptiles will become very accostumed to a certain person's presence and may feel more secure around that person. Might even show a 'preferance' towards that person. But does that presence equal love?
I've heard some stories about how some male chameleons have even tried to mate with their owner's hand, but just because he's trying to mate with your hand, it does not mean he's showing affection. In other words, no- don't expect him to call you the next morning.
If you ask me, the question of whether the love we have for our scaley friends is reciprocated is completely irrelevant. Facts do NOT diminish our own feelings, and it is these feelings that are important to our own humanity, define who we are and help us care for our wards.
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Victor Gomez
gomezvi@yahoo.com

This is perhaps one of the most provocative questions I have seen posted on this forum, and I am sure that it will produce more questions than answers, but that is exactly what makes it of interest. It is important, however, for us to keep in mind that the question involves reptiles; more specifically, lizards. It would be unreasonable, in my opinion, to generalize on the cognitive state of animals IN GENERAL, as these range from "brainless" corals to "highly evolved" dolphins.

I am of the opinion that, SOME animals, may posses a highly cognitive mind; as is the case of an elephant's continuous "weeping" at the sight of another's death, or the "unnecessary game" that a group of Orcas may play while throwing around a seal pup with their tails, only to devour it 30 minutes later. But one may wonder, are the Orcas consciously doing so to entertain themselves, or is the "ritual" only a instinctual training session for the young cetaceans? One may never know.

On the other hand, I cannot accept that a chameleon, or any other reptile, consciously recognizes a certain human individual, and as a result, reacts differently so than with another human being. I am not saying that the animal, through constant repetition, has not learnt to tolerate or remember a certain shape, color, or scent (present in such human individual), but to say that your iguana closes its eyes when you rub its head because IT LIKES YOU, is a bit ridiculous, partly because it does not take into consideration the possibility that the animal may simply be protecting its eyes.

Although I ENTIRELY reject the idea that reptiles (or corals, or arthopods, or fish) are capable of showing "affection or love," it is important to emphasize the differences between that, and their ability to feel pain or suffering. Our respect or protection should not come from the human characteristics we (sometimes erroneously) attribute to them, but from their importance to the equilibrium of this planet as a whole. Besides, they were here first!

Cheers,

Fabián

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Fabián Aguirre
Zookeeper/ Freshwater Aquarist
Department of Herpetology and Freshwater Biology
The Dallas World Aquarium
(214) 720-2224
fabian@dwazoo.com
www.dwazoo.com

sorry... (they should really allow you to edit your messages).

Excellent picture, so big!

I think in the case of the Orca's, they are just tenderizing the meat before they eat it.
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Bryan, Atlanta GA

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