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killing mites and treating respiratory disease

mikeflores Jun 27, 2005 03:34 AM

i live far away from the US and i am really having problems with mites... specially those inside the eyesocket.
tried spraying them with 1 liter water with 2cc of ivomec??? (invermectin???) not so sure with the dosage, but they still come back. i was once in indonesia and they use bug spray in the enclosures, we have water base bug sprays here also, but wouldn't that be too strong? also tried ectodex for dogs... it's like an acid base mite/lice killer, to be diluted in water.

all the help and opinion are deeply appreciated.
(also any tips on respiratory infections? we have baytril here but i don't know how to inject and we don't have any reptile doctors here, so best if i can just administer thru their food or directly thru the mouth)

Replies (6)

5rings Jun 27, 2005 07:49 AM

Ivermetic is very effective but use it with great caution. Somebody was nice enough to send me some ticks one time and I didnt catch them until several animals had them , even though I used quarantine for the new animals. Ticks are slightly more resilient than mites. My vet gave me some Ivermectin spray. I am always cautious about such things so I diluted it 1:3 before spraying. I lost a diamond x jungle in about 24 hrs. I also lost one of the very best gray-banded kingsnakes in existence, he was dead in less than 12 hours. One of my adult IJ carpets was sick for several weeks but finally recovered. I have since heard that arboreals and their close cousins are very sensitive to such things and must only be treated with Ivermectin as a last resort and then in very, very dilute concentration. It is interesting to note that thankfully I did not spray my GTPs. They were in another area and did not show any signs of infestation. It is also interesting that my blood pythons showed no ill efffects what so ever.

steve

ravensgait Jun 27, 2005 10:46 AM

I've used Ivermectin in a spray and for treating internal parasites. In a spray I use it in a 10 percent solution and spray it on the animal and the cage. For internal use the dosage is .2 ml per Kilo. I inject it into the food item and dose them again in 2 to 3 weeks. Ivermectin is a fairly benign drug and in dogs cats and horses you can give huge overdoses without ill effect. As far as I know there have been no studies of its use in reptiles though.

It is effective when given internally in killing external parasites as it lingers in the blood and when a mite bites it dies. It's used in heart worm pills for dogs and cats and also controls ear mites in them, it is commonly used in horses,cattle and pigs as a pour on and internally. I have used it in a spray and internally with a number of animals, GTPs, ETBs, ATBs ETC ETC and have yet to see any ill effects in my animals. Randy
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I don't care if the glass is half full or half empty !
I just want the full glass I paid for !

5rings Jun 28, 2005 01:37 PM

I am not trying to be disrespectful to anybody but a 10% solution (w/v) would be fatal to any known vertebrate. Merck doesnt even sell it in that high of a concentration. I am a molecular biologist but I am going to talk off of the cuff here so you might want to do your own reserach before applying Ivermectin.

Ivermectin is a neurotransmitter agonist. It is about as far from being benign as they come. Specifically it upregulates gamma amino butyric acid (GABA). GABA acts to block nerve impulses. In short, too much and your nervous systen stops, you slip into a coma and die.

10% solution is many, many times too concentrated. Abrahams (1992) reported in the "Bulletin of the Association of Reptile and Amphibian Veterinarians", that a 1:2000 dilution of a 5 microgram/milliliter stock solution was effective in treating mites. That final concentraion is something like 0.00005%. If I remember right you can buy it in a concentrated liquid topical solution of around 1% (1 mg/ml) It is meant to be diluted. That should be diluted 1:2000 for a final working topical solution.

One drop of a 1% solution was given to bats externally and proved fatal. A couple ounces of a 10% solution applied topically would likely kill a horse. Merck, the manufacturer warns specifically against using it on reptiles for any reason. It does work and I have used it successfully to treat ticks on wild caught blood pythons but be very, very careful with concentrations and how much you spray on the animal. I have also heard several anecdotal stories about the deliterious effects of Ivermectin on arboreals specifically.

Not just my opinion, it is all over the internet. I suggest you do your own homework.

Steve

5rings Jun 28, 2005 01:42 PM

OOoops, I didnt proof read or check my math. The correct dilution according to Abrahams is 1:2000 of a 5microgram/milliter stock solution. Final concentration = .00005%, I think. I have also read that others dilute 1 milliter of a 1mg/ml stock with a quart of water. That is a bit higher than Abrahams suggested concentration.

ravensgait Jun 28, 2005 04:31 PM

What I'd like to know is where you could get pure or undiluted Ivermectin?? Or why you would think we were talking about anything other than the 1 or 2 percent solution that it is sold in ??? Which is .5 ml for a 50 ml bottle and would take a bunch of bottles at 40 bucks a pop to get the concentrations your talking about and one really big snake to be able to take that much.

Ivermectin is commonly used in cattle,horses,dogs,cats and swine. Studies have show that overdosing many times the recommended dose has show no ill effects(if i remember correctly 100 times the dose in dogs) thus the use of the term benign as it doesn't seem to hurt anything. Ivermectin does stay in the animals system for a while must be why they write (do not use in cattle within 35 days of slaughter) The fact that it does stay in the blood stream for a while is one reason it is so useful, it keeps on killing. It is The ingredient in heart worm medication and in many other types of horse ETC wormer.

As I stated before there have been no studies of its use in reptiles but has been commonly used in them for a long time.Randy
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I don't care if the glass is half full or half empty !
I just want the full glass I paid for !

ravensgait Jun 28, 2005 04:48 PM

Considering that some died and others seem just fine I'd look elsewhere for the cause. I've used it for years in My ETBs, ATBs ETC and now my GTPs and even some rat snakes I had for a while.I haven't often used it in a spray but have a few times and never noticed any ill effects from a 10 percent solution.Randy

>>Ivermetic is very effective but use it with great caution. Somebody was nice enough to send me some ticks one time and I didnt catch them until several animals had them , even though I used quarantine for the new animals. Ticks are slightly more resilient than mites. My vet gave me some Ivermectin spray. I am always cautious about such things so I diluted it 1:3 before spraying. I lost a diamond x jungle in about 24 hrs. I also lost one of the very best gray-banded kingsnakes in existence, he was dead in less than 12 hours. One of my adult IJ carpets was sick for several weeks but finally recovered. I have since heard that arboreals and their close cousins are very sensitive to such things and must only be treated with Ivermectin as a last resort and then in very, very dilute concentration. It is interesting to note that thankfully I did not spray my GTPs. They were in another area and did not show any signs of infestation. It is also interesting that my blood pythons showed no ill efffects what so ever.
>>
>>steve
-----
I don't care if the glass is half full or half empty !
I just want the full glass I paid for !

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