Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I heard an interesting thing this week from one of the reputable Veterinary Distributor. There was a study done in cattle about the use of gentomycin and it's long-term effects on the organs. It stated that residue of gentomycin was found on necropsy in the livers of cattle treated with it in reccommeded doses THREE YEARS later. If anyone if interested I can try to get my hands on the actual published data. I thought 3 years is frightening. Can you imagine what this drug can/does to snakes? Amikacin is more commonly prescribed, but it is still within the same class of antibiotic. My guess would be that there is no known published life-long studies in reptilians. Of course if your snake cannot breath it needs help regardless of what happens long-term, but maybe we need to be more cautious about trusting the practitioners to know what's best suited for our situation.

Now here's the OT part, my 6 year old cat has multicentric lymphoma. Against all but 2 people's advice I am choosing to treat him with chemotherapy. This is a lg cell grade 3 tumor in his rear foot and leg that was detected (limped) on the day before Memorial day. It has progressed at a frightening speed, and in my 20 yrs at the vet clinic, I don't remember seeing anything like it. My clinic has not ever treated this in the manner of which it is being done. For a reason I can't quite put my thoughts on, I packed up my kitty and have been treating him at another place. My clinic helped me secure the drugs, but since I would actually be the Tech doing the treatments, I was very uncomfortable and kinda took the drugs and ran to another vet who is being more helpful. I am feeling sorry for myself.

The good news is I have a possibly gravid BRB due within the next 30 days. Please, please, please, please, be gravid (with viable offspring) I need the money for chemo!

Okay, there's what's happenin' in Lubbock.

If you read this much, thanks for listening. I needed to vent to my Rainbow Family.

Linda
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When the student is ready, the teacher appears. When the student is ready, the teacher appears. When the student is ready, the teacher appears. When the student is ready, the teachers appears.

Linda,
...I am very sorry to hear about the cat. You can count me among the people who think chemo is the wrong way to go. The rapid progression of the tumor is likely indicative of a poor prognosis no matter what you do. On the other hand I lost a dog to cancer and I can understand why you are going ahead with the chemo. We do become very attached to our four legged pets. I do hope the cat proves we pessimistic humans wrong.
...The presence of antibiotics so long after use in mammals should get everyone's attention. Not gonna quit eating steaks though. With their less efficient renal systems I would guess that the problem is more serious in snakes. I used to keep very accurate records. If a snake ate or shed or got medicated I had it in writing. Before I knew enough about husbandry I had to use antibiotics fairly often to treat apparent respiratory infections. As I figured out the husbandry problems over the years I had to use antibiotics less and less. I have not treated any snake with antibiotics in over three years. A couple years ago I noticed looking through my records that of all of my older snakes only one of them had had more than two regimens of antibiotic treatment during it's life. The other snakes that had been "cured" with the antibiotics were dead before they reached ten years of age. If we have a snake with a serious respiratory infection treatment with Amikacin or Baytril is probably a reasonable course of action but it is likely a trade off against longterm longevity.
...I have a bunch of Rainbows that are looking and acting gravid and as in past years the waiting is driving me crazy. Both female Campina Grande Rainbows seem gravid. The monetary payoff will not be big with their likely very small litters but these two have me more excited than all my other gravid snakes.
Jeff

>>I heard an interesting thing this week from one of the reputable Veterinary Distributor. There was a study done in cattle about the use of gentomycin and it's long-term effects on the organs. It stated that residue of gentomycin was found on necropsy in the livers of cattle treated with it in reccommeded doses THREE YEARS later. If anyone if interested I can try to get my hands on the actual published data. I thought 3 years is frightening. Can you imagine what this drug can/does to snakes? Amikacin is more commonly prescribed, but it is still within the same class of antibiotic. My guess would be that there is no known published life-long studies in reptilians. Of course if your snake cannot breath it needs help regardless of what happens long-term, but maybe we need to be more cautious about trusting the practitioners to know what's best suited for our situation.
>>
>>Now here's the OT part, my 6 year old cat has multicentric lymphoma. Against all but 2 people's advice I am choosing to treat him with chemotherapy. This is a lg cell grade 3 tumor in his rear foot and leg that was detected (limped) on the day before Memorial day. It has progressed at a frightening speed, and in my 20 yrs at the vet clinic, I don't remember seeing anything like it. My clinic has not ever treated this in the manner of which it is being done. For a reason I can't quite put my thoughts on, I packed up my kitty and have been treating him at another place. My clinic helped me secure the drugs, but since I would actually be the Tech doing the treatments, I was very uncomfortable and kinda took the drugs and ran to another vet who is being more helpful. I am feeling sorry for myself.
>>
>>The good news is I have a possibly gravid BRB due within the next 30 days. Please, please, please, please, be gravid (with viable offspring) I need the money for chemo!
>>
>>Okay, there's what's happenin' in Lubbock.
>>
>>If you read this much, thanks for listening. I needed to vent to my Rainbow Family.
>>
>>Linda
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>> When the student is ready, the teacher appears. When the student is ready, the teacher appears. When the student is ready, the teacher appears. When the student is ready, the teachers appears.

You are right, Mr Froggy has a poor prognosis at best. In fact, a month ago I would not ever have dreamed about chemo on one my companion animals. My thoughts have changed considerably in a short while due to this being a personal situation and that cats supposedly do not have anywhere near the degree of side effects that humans experience. So far after treatment with Vincristine and Elspar the apparent have been nothing. Everyday I can see the tumor progress and challenge what's in my heart and what I think. It's not aligned yet, and when it does I hopefully will have done it "in Froggy's best interest". At this point I don't know what that is or will be. My options are 1) euthanize a feeding, purring, following me around cat, 2) do nothing and euthanize him when one or all of those 3 things stop ocurring, or 3) try something I am basically against because the more research I do the better this option sounds. I wish it were as easy as cutting it off and throwing it in the trash. There is a part of me that wishes I couldn't have secured the drugs at such a reduced cost and that this kitty would be sick, instead of feeling pretty good so the decision would be uncomplicated. If it sounds like I'm trying to justify my decision it is true. I don't know why I'm doing this. I may stop tomorrow...who knows.

Linda
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When the student is ready, the teacher appears. When the student is ready, the teacher appears. When the student is ready, the teacher appears. When the student is ready, the teachers appears.

Linda,
I am rooting for your kitty...and your gravid (thinking positive thoughts) BRB.

......you've worked at the same clinic for 20years?

Chris O
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www.chrisolsonreptiles.com
Naked I see the camp of those who desire nothing

We need some positive vibes. Yes, I started working at the clinic in June of '85 when I was 16 years old. I have gotten pissed enough to leave 2 times, and worked in a detox center, and pet store for 3 of those years in between. I'm not sure who is crazier, me(who came back 2 times) or Doc (who hired me 3 times). I'd say it's a love/hate relationship.

Linda

P.S. I lost the Bulldog bet of 8 puppies. We delivered 9 at 5 a.m. One was a water puppy as big as a cantolop who was euthanized. Darn big litter though. Always good to get my blood pumping!
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When the student is ready, the teacher appears. When the student is ready, the teacher appears. When the student is ready, the teacher appears. When the student is ready, the teachers appears.

Hey Linda, sorry to hear about your kitty, we lost our 16 yr old kitty last year, it really sucked, I still find myself looking for him. Good luck with your BRB's
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Thanks,

Dave "Rainbows-R-Us"

0.1 Wife
0.2 kids
4.12 Brazilian Rainbow Boa
1.1 Ball python
0.1 BCI "Elvira" normal from 1989
1.0 BCI albino / het-anery
0.1 BCI Hypo / het-albino
0.1 BCI Anery / het-albino
0.1 BCI Hypo (possible super)

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

It's always difficult to loose one, I have lost many. I am having a difficult time with this one, partly because he is still so young. "Sucked" is about the most accurate term I can think of to describe the whole deal. I use it as the short answer....I know exactly what it means.

Linda

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When the student is ready, the teacher appears. When the student is ready, the teacher appears. When the student is ready, the teacher appears. When the student is ready, the teachers appears.

Yeah....SUCKS is about the best word for Cancer. Lost a couple of friends to Cancer recently. Both fought hard and both lost the battle. One was my wifes best friends husband, left behind four school age kids. The other was one of my/our long time friends, even vacationed together every summer for the last 9 years, losing her was harder for me, she is/was a real sweetheart.

Good luck with your kitty, but please try to be objective and if it gets to be time to let her go........
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Thanks,

Dave "Rainbows-R-Us"

0.1 Wife
0.2 kids
4.12 Brazilian Rainbow Boa
1.1 Ball python
0.1 BCI "Elvira" normal from 1989
1.0 BCI albino / het-anery
0.1 BCI Hypo / het-albino
0.1 BCI Anery / het-albino
0.1 BCI Hypo (possible super)

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats