Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Is it just my (jaded) opinion, or is every first time buyer of imports and their brother thinking they have some new (or already named) morph out of every shipment of import Ball pythons?!?!? If I had a dollar for every ad on KS or elsewhere that claimed it was something other than a normal BP I'd be able to buy something "purty".

Most of the photos I've seen look no different than the lots of BPs I've gotten in in the past. I'd really hate to think I missed out on something. I've sold many a "normal" BP with "blushing" or "flames". If this is the case, then these morphs should be a lot more common than first thought, and probably haven't been bred because they were bought as pets.

Questions? Comments? Limerick of questionable taste?

-Jason

Here ya go...

I bought from a Kingsnake ad,
That showed a new "morph" they had.
I fed it and fed it.
Then bred it and bred it.
No morph. Just normal. I'm sad.

Chris
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mean people suck

That is priceless! Thx for the chuckle.

Kara

>>Here ya go...
>>
>>I bought from a Kingsnake ad,
>>That showed a new "morph" they had.
>>I fed it and fed it.
>>Then bred it and bred it.
>>No morph. Just normal. I'm sad.
>>
>>
>>Chris
>>-----
>>mean people suck
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Just because I have a short attention span doesn't mean

how long did it take you to come up with that...
it didn't have any questionable taste though

Umm...about three minutes.

Of course, it's nothing compared to the Bob Clark/Genesis text. =)

Chris

(The questionable taste lies in whether or not you qualify it as real poetry.)
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mean people suck

With about 150,000 ball pythons exported from Africa each year the best-looking 1% would be 1,500. If even 1 in 1,000 exports where genetically interesting that would still be 150. If only 1 in 10,000 where subtle hets for a new co dominant morphs that would still be 15 a year.

So, I'm sure there are lots of animals that will not prove out but the shear numbers are responsible for the growing field of proven morphs.

np

This time of the year is the most exciting and the most depressing. Kind of that ying / yang thing. I love to see all the eye candy in the forums. New morphs and the "what do I have" pics. I enjoy both. The ads in the classifieds are depressing. All the resellers trying to make a quick buck. Taking advantage of those that don't know better. They are only in it for the money. They are hurting the hobby and the business. If you got ripped off on your first purchase, would you come back for more? I don't see anything wrong with posting pics and asking for opinions or "is this a ...". For every person that does post pics and ask for opinions there are probably several that would like to post but don't because they don't want to get slammed. Not very encouraging. I enjoy seeing those pics. They must have seen something special about that particular ball when they selected it. We may or may not see what caught their eye. This hobby rarely provides instant gratification. The process of proving out any trait requires commitment and dedication.
With that said, post more pics, ask for opinions, and ask if this is a .... Just don't misrepresent it in the classifieds.
Just my opinion.
John Q

I couldn't agree with you more, John. I see some of these people post ads that severely undercut the "competition" (in this case, the competition is "the big breeders" in an attempt to make a quick buck. They need to understand a few things:

A lot of people who may not mind buying from a relatively unknown breeder are turned off from purchasing them because of their ultra low prices. In this market many people stick very closely to the adage: "If it seems too good to be true...it most likely is." The low prices they offer make them appear to be scam artists driving people away from them.

Most of the people they actually do sell these snakes too will end up breeding the hell out of them and then undercutting the market even more next season.

The whole "sky is falling" attitude in this hobby/business is mostly caused by these "business people". I mean come on, what does it look like to a novice when they see a $10,000 -$15,000 animal suddenly advertised (by more than one person for $6500-8500?

They would get a lot more serious inquiries (and be taken more seriously themselves) if they would observe the market prices and stick to them. So what if you don't sell out this year? Next year when the price of neonates drops again they will be able to sell their yearlings for this years price or higher.

You need to perform in a professional manner to be considered a professional. Even "Joe Blow" part time hobbyist selling his 3-4 pastels will have an easier time than someone with 30 mojaves priced at half the market price...Joe Blow will at least appear honest on all fronts.

---------end of rant----------

We now resume your regularly scheduled program of drooling over todays latest new ultra cool morph that actually STIMULATES the market and keeps it going.

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www.mosaicmorphs.com
Check out my FAQ page...

Although many breeders would like to make the hobby a communist environment, and I have heard of several breeders threatening people to keep their prices up with the threat of spreading rumors of IBD, mites, ticks etc...

A free market means prices are where supply meets demand. If someone has the supply, but no demand, they will have to sell cheaper...and vice versa. Giving a lecture can do nothing to change that, it is just the way it is and always will be.
Trying to fix prices is futile, just accept that prices will drop every year until supply and demand are equal.

Okay. I haven't had much sleep, so forgive me if this comes out jumbled...

I'm not sure it has everything to do with supply and demand. Many sellers aren't concerned with demand levels. For example, they could easily sell their Mojaves for (what is market now?) $10K, and the demand would probably be there at that price. Instead, they decide to undercut the market price to ensure a quick sale. That's all.

Another example: I'm sure if I produced Albinos, I could sell every male at $2000 each. Of course, because I do not have any patience and I'm really keen on putting in a swimming pool for the kiddies, I want money NOW. If I advertise all my hatchlings at $1400...they will sell before any other Albino on the market. I get less money, but I get it now.

(NOTE: I only have one kiddie and no backyard. This was only an example.)

I think that's the problem.

I had something else to say, but I was interupted by my producer, so I forget what I was going to say. I think it may have been profound, but knowing my mental state at not having slept...it probably had something to do with pillows and Coco Puffs.

Who knows?

Bottom line: Demand doesn't kill the market...impatience does.

(Thinking about it again...not every low price is because of impatience. Some are from breeders who really don't think the animal is worth the current high market price. These people are only trying to be fair to the little guys. I applaud them.)

I don't think I made any sense...

Chris
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mean people suck

Now all I have to do is find someone who really wants to help a little guy by selling a morph off REAL cheap.
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Bryan, Atlanta GA

1-0-0 Ball Python - Apep
0-1-0 Mountain Horned Dragon - Ki
1-1-0 Rats... no wait... ROTTEN Little Cats - Ra, Bastet
0-1-0 Little Angelic Kitten - Isis
1-0-0 Horse... whoops... BIG Golden Retriever - Jake
0-1-0 Wife
2-0-0 Kids

Well said Chris.... I've been guilty of the "quck sell for less than market price"... which some of us "hobby" breeders are forced to do in order to meet previous commitments (or eat...lol).

-Jason

Chris,
I agree that the demand is there, for most morphs, but in a capitalist environment the most important equation is time = money. So if you can sell before your competitors by selling cheaper, most people will do it everytime. They sure aren't going to wait and sell at a higher price because their competitor asks them to.

Think of 2 gas stations, one has a trusted product and lots of financial backing, while the other one is owned privately and the gas is much less trusted. If both gas stations are selling gas for the same price, which one are you going to buy from? If you own the samller gas station, you are not concerned with wether or not you eventually sell your gas, but wether or not you sell it today. So you drop the price to stay competitive. As long as the trusted big business gas station maintains its price everything goes along smoothly and both companies sell gas. However, if the larger station reduces its price to match your reduced price, a price war starts and prices drop rapidly. So who is to blame? Maybe it is the big gas station for being too greedy, not wanting the little guy to have a fair share. Just my opinion.
In the end, the consumer benefits from price wars, so either way I am happy since I am buying more than selling. Let the price wars begin...lol

The original post was about all the post by first time buyers wanting to know if they had something special. "Is it just my (jaded) opinion, or is every first time buyer of imports and their brother thinking they have some new (or already named) morph out of every shipment of import Ball pythons"
I was stating that I enjoy participating in those post, sharing pics, and seeing others post with pics. I get depressed at the resellers that breed nothing, buy large lots for very low prices, make up names, and take advantage of buyers that are new to the hobby. They hurt the hobby. If your first experience was all negative, would you still be in the hobby?
I never said anything about the big breeders, high prices for their designer morphs, price setting, protecting the market by keeping prices high, etc. Producing a morph, new or not, takes time and money. That justifies the price. I would also say that a couple of small breeders selling for below market is not likely to alter the market.
We should also encourage individuals entering the hobby to participate in the forum and not slam them. The more they learn, the more we learn, the less likely we will be taken advantage of by those individuals that are only out to make a quick buck.
I hope this clears up my first reply.
John Q