Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey gang,

Well, I was going to take my son (age 6)fishing this summer, but,
we were taking a walk over by the brewery and my son caught 5 garter snakes like he was picking up pennies.
I was surprised at how docile they were. Anyway, we have decided to make our new hobby herpotology collection expeditions. I am hoping you can help us with your advice from time to time.

The 5 snakes are: 2 puget sound garter snakes
2 T. Elegans Terrestrius
1 Eastern Garter Snake*
*A biologist friend of mine insists that this is a 'blue morph' of some other Garter, but hey, Don't Eastern Garters range the entire US? thought so...

anywho, we are hoping to hit a few spots other then the brewery, Im told there are emerald green morphs out at evergreen, we will go there next, and a trip to Oregon (portland area) might also be possible if someone would be kind enought to point me to a hotspot.

Thanks and have a great summer.

There are no Eastern Garter Snakes in the Puget sound region.
The eastern garter is a subspecies of the common garter snake T. sirtalis
that is native to eastern North America. The subspecies
of common garter that is native to your area is the puget sound garter.

The three garter snake in that area are:
Northwestern Garter
Western Terrestrial Garter
Puget sound garter.

The one you are calling an eastern is likely the blue morph of
the northwestern garter snake.

FYI, Washington has some strange reptile laws. I have looked
for specifics on the Washington Game and Fish website to no avail.
I am told that many people have been given conflicting stories
about collection in Washington from Game and Fish.
I believe the general understanding is that it is illegal to keep
any wildcaught snakes there. I believe that is why you don't
see anyone breeding the beautiful puget sound garters.

Good luck with your new father and son hobby.
Herping is a great way to spend time with your kids.

Brian

>>Hey gang,
>>
>> Well, I was going to take my son (age 6)fishing this summer, but,
>>we were taking a walk over by the brewery and my son caught 5 garter snakes like he was picking up pennies.
>> I was surprised at how docile they were. Anyway, we have decided to make our new hobby herpotology collection expeditions. I am hoping you can help us with your advice from time to time.
>>
>>The 5 snakes are: 2 puget sound garter snakes
>> 2 T. Elegans Terrestrius
>> 1 Eastern Garter Snake*
>> *A biologist friend of mine insists that this is a 'blue morph' of some other Garter, but hey, Don't Eastern Garters range the entire US? thought so...
>>
>>anywho, we are hoping to hit a few spots other then the brewery, Im told there are emerald green morphs out at evergreen, we will go there next, and a trip to Oregon (portland area) might also be possible if someone would be kind enought to point me to a hotspot.
>>
>>Thanks and have a great summer.

Blue Morph of the NW Garter you say?
oh well.
I know you guys are legal beagles on here.
I, myself, am not.

Suffice it to say that you should not think of Washington as a State but as a territory with very few laws and inconsistent enforcment of those laws, besides the laws you are talking about are county and city laws NOT state laws.

Basically, if there is a complaint by your neighbors about you keeping animals they will try to fine you under the Rat(vermin) or Chicken law. They don't care if your animals are not rats or chickens. There will be no complaints against me.

On a lighter note there seems to be a show in Portland ORe in Sept. Maybe we can hit that and go on an expedition down there to. hurray.

It is absolutly illegal in the state of Washington to collect or keep any native wildlife without a scientific research permit. This law encompasses all native species of reptiles and amphibians. These permits are not given to hobbyists or other citizens.

These are state laws and they are enforced. I know of several instances where they have been enforced against private hobbyists. No one is above the law.

You may reference the Revised Code of Washington (reference RCW 77-16-120) or call the WDFW at 360-902-2936 for more information.
-----
Randy
Firehouse Herps

I'll be heading down there for the really cool expo at the museaum, anyone know of any conviently located garter locations around there for that time of year?

I love Portland but dont spend alot of time there so your intel would be greatly appreciated!

Based on your comments above.

No offense but its the ones who don't want to obey the laws who ruin it for those
who do. Such disregard for the laws is the primary cause for the types of strict laws
which exist in Washington.

I advise buying a camera and just taking pictures.
You'll have less cages to clean that way and can still
see the beautiful snakes any time you want.
It will also give you more reason to get out into the field.
Or maybee try applying for a scientific permit to collect some
in Washington. Maybee you and your son could do some type of
school project involving them.

>>I'll be heading down there for the really cool expo at the museaum, anyone know of any conviently located garter locations around there for that time of year?
>>
>>I love Portland but dont spend alot of time there so your intel would be greatly appreciated!

Did you see the part where I said I was going to Oregon?
Anyway, I already got clearence from Fish and Wildlife for my project.

You two seemed determined to keep me out of the hobby, well it hasn't worked. I'm in it, got my project stamped and my travel plans made.

You have convinced me, however, that I will get no new information, assistance or comradery on these forums.

So, I'll be leaving now, I've gotta go see if we can't find that green morph while there is still some morning sun.

Sayonara.

Lupine,
We're not trying to keep you out of the hobby.
Rather we are just trying to get you off on the right foot.
I'm glad to hear you got your permit.
Good luck with it.

By the way, the snakes which exist in the portland area are the same species which exist in Washington and therefore it would be illegal for you to keep them in Washington without a permit.
Thats sort of a moot point since you now have a permit.

>>Did you see the part where I said I was going to Oregon?
>>Anyway, I already got clearence from Fish and Wildlife for my project.
>>
>>You two seemed determined to keep me out of the hobby, well it hasn't worked. I'm in it, got my project stamped and my travel plans made.
>>
>>You have convinced me, however, that I will get no new information, assistance or comradery on these forums.
>>
>>So, I'll be leaving now, I've gotta go see if we can't find that green morph while there is still some morning sun.
>>
>>Sayonara.

Washington does not give permits (or clearance) for the collection or possession of native species except to scientific institutions. I have talked to Washington State authorities numerous times about this subject. In Oregon you do not need a permit for the non-commercial collection of unprotected species (though a large percentage of native species are considered protected by Oregon legislation). It is still illegal in the State of Washington to posses any native species even if you collected them across state borders.

You have clearly indicated you have no respect for the law or ethical hobbyists “I know you guys are legal beagles on here. I, myself, am not.” What kind of a statement is that?

You have also indicated you are either dishonest or that you have not bothered to begin any inquiry into the law “Suffice it to say that you should not think of Washington as a State but as a territory with very few laws and inconsistent enforcement of those laws, besides the laws you are talking about are county and city laws NOT state laws.” News Flash: Washington IS a sate not a territory and the laws ARE State laws not local jurisdictions.

The reason you have not garnered the welcome or camaraderie is this disrespect for the law, the hobby, and other herpetologists. Not many herpers will point you to their favorite collection locales after you put up such a red flag. Though I have become well acquainted with many ethical hobbyists and professionals though these forums I personally consider dishonest and unethical individuals a menace to be held with contempt. I am not stating who is or is not among this ilk but if anyone feels falsely implicated please reiterate. I am open minded and more than willing to admit when I am wrong and apologize for the same but please, do not try and BS us.
-----
Randy
Firehouse Herps

If you're still on the forum, Lupine, a good place to look for information is the Pacific Northwest Herp Society. They are very aware of local and state laws in Washington. Good luck.