Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am going to buy some four-foot cages. I have had the Vision model 422 in the past and loved it. I am a little reluctant to get the new model 400. I am concerned about it not having the support in the front middle like the 422 has. I am going to be keeping True Redtail males in these and I don't want to worry about sagging. What do y'all think? Also what size radiant heater would y'all use if the ambient temp in the room is going to be 78?

Also, I considered the boaphile cages and concluded I was not getting as much cage for my money as the visions. I someone thinks I am mistake please explain to me your point of view.

Thanks

g
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1.0 Columbian (BCI)
0.1 Suriname (BCC)
0.1 Longicauda (BCL)
1.0 Bolivian (BCA)

I have 2 boaphiles (421D) and I think they are GREAT. One has an 8'5" male BCC and the other has a 4'10" male BCI.

It is easy to get the snakes out and put them in and there is enough room to reach around for cleaning/feeding/watering.

I got my cages with 1X heat and locks for $234 each, shipped. I feel that they are well worth the cost.

My adult female BCI is in a custom cage, but when my baby females get larger they too will get Boaphiles.

I looked at the Visions cages, but IMO the Boaphiles are the better choice.

the choice in color, height, and hardware, the strength and durability, the total price for the boaphile with heat and light INCLUDED built inside, seemless, plug and play, and the total cost of a vision and all the seperate hardware you have to buy, install, monitor, maintain, etc..

I think there is no comparison!

Boahiles are the way to go!!!!!

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Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin

I would like to hear from someone who has the vision model 422 & 400 so I can get a better understand of the difference. I might have to reconsider the boaphile 4' cage. Everyone only has positive review for the boaphile cage.

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Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin

If you are trying to decide between the 422 Vision and the 422 Boaphile then the Boaphile is a better deal. The size is not significantly different.

Now if you were gonna get the Vision 432, I like the Vision enclosures alot better. When people talk about a boaphile being hardy, they obviously have not dropped one while moving. I dropped my 432 while moving and it just bounced and got minor scratches you can barely see. Now I use both but to tell you the truth I only use Boaphiles because of space limitations. If I had a bigger place I would only use Visions because I like my boas having an extra 5.5 (I think a total of 13.5 s.f.) square feet of space compared to 8. Sorry I got off track.

If doing 422 to 422, get the boaphile. If you really have the space and don't mind paying a little more get the Vision 432.

Just an opinion so don’t get your feeling hurt Boaphile addicts.

Thanks for your input. I do have the space, but for male BCC I figured the 4' would be plenty of space. I am getting 8 six foot visions for the females. Do you have any problems cleaning the back of the 432 cages? Are you keeping your females in them? (last question) What size radient heater would you use in the different cages with an ambient room temp of 78?

Thanks

Seems like you are thinking the same way I do. My males are usually kept in the Boaphiles while my adult females are kept in my Visions. You don't have the little space in the back of Boaphiles as you do in the Visions 432 so I keep my Boaphiles about 6 to 8 inches off the wall. I use heat tape on all my enclosures and will be using the Boaphile thermostat for both my Visions and Boaphiles.

if you drop a Boaphile, it may chip or crack..
In one shipment out of more than 30, 1 cage came with a crack... (we worked past that, but just an example..)
You can probably throw a vision off the room and it won't crack..

BUT...

my normal daily activities do not include dropping my cages, throwing them, or bouncing them of walls! lol.. (no offense..)

What I mean, is that in the 5 years i've had them, i've never been in that situation.. never had a chance where one would drop.

WHAT I DID EXPERIENCE in the ONE year with my Visions is how they would droop and bow out on all sides, which looks unattractive, and how it was impossible to move a stack across a room without tearing the stack apart.. ie., removing the glasses, heat lamp, snakes, rocks, waterbowls and what have you, from each and every cage, and then lifting them individually and switching them over...
If you were to force it and puch the stack, it would lean diagnally and that's about it.

I moved 6 stacks of 421D's across my rooms 7 times in 5 years, and all I would do is EASILY push the ENTIRE stack across the room, WITHOUT HELP, without removing snakes, or bowls, or lights, or glass, and so on..

I had a malfunctioning heat device in the vision stack, and the animals in there were 8-9 foot beasts...
From that experience alone, Visions are not allowed to step foot in my home again!!!!
LOL

Stressfull day at work... lol

Later -Joe
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Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin

Sorry about your day at work and don't worry I don't take things to heart. I understand everyone will have their own opinions. I do agree that the Boaphiles are easy to move, especially since I keep a board underneath them. What my point was that I like the extra space.

I'm sorry about your heat problems but any kind of heat (Boaphile included) can be used. I think it was the heat that failed you, not the enclosure.

Anyways I think both enclosures are great and I use each for a specific purpose.

Thanks.. i'm always up for a good discussion/conversation, and always willing to learn something new.. but here's my view on this...

I didn't like the fact of having to purchase, install and maintain my own heat, and usually more than one heat source is needed.
We all know many that have larger Visions keep UTH, Radiant Heat Panels, and Heat Lamps.
I think it is ridiculous to have to go through so much.. I have heat installed in my Boaphiles, have never had a problem, never had to replace them or fix them, etc.. same with the lights, which are not used or required as additional heat.. I almost never need them on.

I don't like the cages for what I had to go through to move them too. This involves the cages. They way they are built, they sag and all.. even though they are grooved, if I were to pull one out, it would still move a different way .. in otherwords, the grooves didn't work.
To me, those grooves inside is a waste of space.. ruins the floor.
Now try to put something like a Kane Heat matt in there..
We had to drill holes, cut the cord, rewire it, run cables, drill the matts onto the bottom to secure them...
After your heat and lights and all, you need about 3-4 outlets per cage.
The 'flood damn' is another waste, to me, and incredibly difficult to clean and incredibly attractive to urates and poo.. lol

The screen area for the heat lamp is inefficient for me.. inefficient for lighting, heat, air, humidity..
The heat lamp shines on one little spot.. and that's your basking area. Put two lights, find another electrical socket.
and those lights are such a fire hazard.. I hate them.

The screen/gate used in the back.. to me this is horrible.. smaller boas still get nose rubs, and it lets in WAY too much air.
In the year I owned my Visions, my snakes NEVER had one good shed! Not after having drinking water bowls, soaking water tubs, AND misting each snake in each cage every other day!!!

In the first month of owning Boaphiles, I realized my snakes were having perfect sheds without misting or anything other than drinking water in a small bowl.

and then the glass doors which are heavy and won't open or close because of cage sagging if you have a stack.. that shouldn't happen!
and then the times a large snake has broken the glass, or a smaller snake has gotten through the space between the glass..

More than half a dozen reasons...

Now, i'm a breeder, with limited space.. to me, the Boaphiles are worth their weight in gold.

When it comes to SPACE, and DISPLAY type cages, then, obviously, you can't compare! I'd get a Vision if it were for a pet or two.

Thanks again, now I have to finish some work so I can get home in time to pack and ship more snakes out... can't let down the customers!

Take care, Joe
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Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin

that is, I have a boaphile 3'x2' cage (whatever model number that is), a ball room rack (more to come soon, I love this rack!), and another boaphile rack.

While I must say boaphile racks are the only ones I will buy from now on, I have to go with the vision 422 on this one.

To each their own but here are the reasons from my standpoint. My snake room stays at a ambient temp of 75-80 deg during the summer. Much like BCI Joe I have, in the past, had cages with individual heating elements, radiant panels, bulbs, ect, ect. All of these methods were complicated and really when it comes down to it ........ a big PITA.

I have since went to 11" flexwatt for heating all my adult animals cages. It works perfectly with the vision 422. You simply run the heat tape across the bottom of the first cage, up the side, across the top, place the second cage on the stack, run the tape up its side, across the top in the oppoosite direction, place the third cage, ect, ect.

Then I use ONE thermostate per 4 cages with ONE 25' strip of 11" flexwatt. The flexwatt creates a nice wide area across the BACK of the cage and the ambient temps across the front are right where they need to be. It works great, this way each cage is heated on the back half from above and below and it keeps the air that comes in and out of the back ventilation holes somewhat warm from the flexwatt being back there.

Honestly, even though the vision 422 is only 4" deeper than the boaphile, I dont think I could give up that 4"!!! If that 4" were not there, there wouldnt be enough floor space to make the proper temp. gradiant as is occuring in my ages now, using the 11" flex. Sure I could switch to a 4" flex., but that doesnt make quite a big enough area and doesnt seem to raise the AMBIENT temps to the level I like.

The boaphiles are great cages, and Im sure just fine for males, but my females I just feel need a hair more room. I dont like having individual heating elements per cage as mentioned above, and with ONE strip of 11" flex and a thermostate PER 4 cages, the cords, clutter, and maintenance is virtually ZERO! Its super simple and makes a perfect gradient from front to back, very similar to the way rack systems work.

Basically I think the 11" flex and the vision 422 was made for each other. If the cage had any less depth the it wouldnt work out right, and switching to a 4" flex wouldnt be enough heating muscle to get the job done. If I tried using the 11" flex on the 24" deep boaphiles there wouldnt be enough floor space that remained cool, thereby eliminating the nice gradual change in temps that I have now. These two products combined I feel is the most cost efficient, simple setup that can be had.

Not only that, but I look at my 7.5 and 8' animals and they look comfy in the vision 422. If the cages depth was 4" less, I think they would look slightly cramped, and I just dont want to do that to them. I feel bad enough as it is with the 28" depth, but due to space limitations .....

Thanks for your input. Heating the visions is a concern. I don't know if I could get used to looking a 11" heat element wraping around my cages. I am planning on using the 16"x11" radient heat panels in the 422s and the 30"x11" in my six foot cages.

Does anyone know if the Visions are flamable? I was just reading JR's write up about fire and he got me thinking.

Thanks again

Thats certainly a consideration if your only going to have one cage, I have stacks of four so there is no heat tape exposed except on the top of the highest cage, which isnt visable because of the height. One side is up against a corner of the room and on the other side I have racks so there is no heat tape exposed.

Radiant heat panels do work great, and you'll want to use a thermostate for sure.

Actually this is how I feel in general. Currently all my snakes are in Boaphile cages and racks, with flexwatt installed and run on proportional thermostats. I am getting ready to switch over to radiant heat panels. I have done a lot of research and I don't think it is a good idea to get the ones from Jeff, just my opinion, Pro-products has much better, more efficient, and safer heat panels. The down side is they need to be screwed into the cage.

I would recommend proportional thermostats as opposed to the classic on/off type, and always digital. Digital gives better accuracy. Also, the proportional maintain the proper temperature constantly, while the on/off type can fluctuate (and do so commonly in my past experiences). Helix DBS 1000, and HerpStat are both top choices!

After reading the review Pro Exotics gave Pro Products heat panels I think I am going to stay clear of them. I will probably go with the Helix heat panels.

I never saw the review. Could you post a link?

Something to think about is what do they sell and what did they give that product a rateing of. You also have to take into consideration of people useing that product and what they have to say about it. A store or company will find faults in anything they don't sell and will hide the faults in what they sell but other consumers who used there hard earned dollors will say yea they work good or no there a piece of junk. I always take reports like that with a grain of salt cause it could br wrong. Just something to think about. Paul