Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm new to this site,and am NOT a snake hobbyist,nor am I a snake "hater." There are lots of good things about snakes,hence my question about this one.I live in NE Arkansas in the Delta region.I was watching a nest of baby wrens growing up in one of my flower pots on my front porch,keeping citronella candles lit to keep mosquitoes down,ect.Having so much fun watching them.The flower pot was sitting on a wrought iron stand off the ground.I realize that doesn't matter one iota to a snake.This AM I with horror saw that the babies were gone suddenly.On the porch I found the culprit sunning himself.He was about 4' long,black on top,with a reddish pattern on the underside.We commonly call this a "king" snake in our area,however,I know there are lots of snakes around here that could be classified as a king type snake,they are usually docile,but he wasn't as when I got close enough to look at him really good,he coiled somewhat and made some buzzing with his tail,and no,he definately wasn't a rattlesnake nor was he posionous,I grew up knowing the difference from an early age,having cottonmouths regularly appear in the yard.(Unless there was a "king" snake around.)Do you know what he/she might have been,besides satified (NOT lol.)Thanks.

From your description & the fact that he climbed & snacked on the nestlings, I would say the culprit is most likely a black ratsnake. Extremely beneficial..they usually eat more rats than they do birds, but are certainly going to take what is most readily available.

~~Greg~~

it was indeed a black ratsnake,I looked at the photo that was shown here.Are there king snakes in my locale? NE Arkansas.Delta region.We always heard that if you had one in your yard,you wouldn't ever see any others,such as: cottonmouths,copperheads,ect.My dad wouldn't ever kill a snake in the yard unless it was one of the above named.I guess I learned a healthy respect for snakes this way,not to just mindlessly scream "SNAKE!" and have somebody run for a hoe.However,I'll draw the line if it comes back around and takes up residence in the garage,ect.I saw the tail end of a snake leaving out of the garage one AM when I was working in the yard,and it may have been this one.What exactly would a king snake native to this area look like? And do rat snakes prey on other snakes like the king? THanks for the info.PS I don't feel this same respect about spiders,even tho I do allow garden spiders to reside around here.

Check out this site for information on Arkansas herps
Arkansas Herps

I would have to agree that it was more than likely a black rat snake. Im originally from MO, and we have black rat snakes that have alot of red between the scales on the sides and even on the belly, mixed in with the black markings. Black rat snakes are not picky when it comes to food. They will eat mice, rats, voles, moles, baby rabbits, baby/small squirrels, chipmunks, and birds. As far as vibrating the tail, just about all snakes will vibrate their tails when scared. When done in the leaves in the woods, it sounds eerily close to a rattler!! LOL I have had my heart rate increase a few times out in the field when a king or rat has vibrated its tail in the leaves before I saw it!! LOL

Here is a pic of one of my MO black rats...Notice the red coloration on her sides between the scales, it even fades down to her belly......

Brian

>>I'm new to this site,and am NOT a snake hobbyist,nor am I a snake "hater." There are lots of good things about snakes,hence my question about this one.I live in NE Arkansas in the Delta region.I was watching a nest of baby wrens growing up in one of my flower pots on my front porch,keeping citronella candles lit to keep mosquitoes down,ect.Having so much fun watching them.The flower pot was sitting on a wrought iron stand off the ground.I realize that doesn't matter one iota to a snake.This AM I with horror saw that the babies were gone suddenly.On the porch I found the culprit sunning himself.He was about 4' long,black on top,with a reddish pattern on the underside.We commonly call this a "king" snake in our area,however,I know there are lots of snakes around here that could be classified as a king type snake,they are usually docile,but he wasn't as when I got close enough to look at him really good,he coiled somewhat and made some buzzing with his tail,and no,he definately wasn't a rattlesnake nor was he posionous,I grew up knowing the difference from an early age,having cottonmouths regularly appear in the yard.(Unless there was a "king" snake around.)Do you know what he/she might have been,besides satified (NOT lol.)Thanks.

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RATS
1.0 Corn snake "Warpath" (KY locale)
0.0.1 Corn snake (KY locale)
1.0 Black rat snake "Havok" (KY locale)
1.1 Black rat snakes "Reaper and Mystique" (MO locale)
1.0 Albino Black rat snake "Malakai" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Everglades rat snake "Deadpool" (Dwight Good stock)
0.1 Greenish rat snake "Rogue" (Dwight Good stock)
0.0.1 Great plains rat snake (TX locale)
1.0 Grey rat snake "Punisher" (White oak phase)(Dwight Good stock)

Good luck and Happy Herping
Brian

Thanks a lot! From the photo I could swear he/she posed either before or after the dirty deed of feeding on the babies.Poor little things.Nature is cruel,as mama used to say!I didn't even dream about a SNAKE getting them,as I was too worried about neighbor cats.I should have thought of it,as the nest was pretty handy.I should have gotten a squirrel baffle for that plant stand or moved it on a taller stand with a baffle.That's the reason I've never put up a bluebird house here in the sticks,someone told me this very thing would happen.This was a somewhat aggressive snake.She got pretty ticked off with me just coming over to take a better look (after I figured out from a distance it wasn't a pit viper.)We have a fair share of copperheads here,I live in/on Crowleys Ridge,if your from MO you probably know about "The Ridge."(Our claim to hills in NE ARK.)The copperheads are actually a beautiful snake,I respect them and don't get too close to them.This black ratsnake needs to hang around here in the winter,since it helped itself to my birds,and also,I'll thank it greatly to stay away from the birds and work on those dern MOLES in my yard!! Ha Ha! No,she/he did coil and when I tried to run her off the porch,she struck at the broom several times,quite scary since at her length she was pretty good at it.Do they "bite"?

Yes, black rats will bite if they are approaced too closely or picked up improperly. They are not aggressive. What you witnessed was defensive..not aggressive..behavior.

Run a quick websearch for Lampropeltis. That is the genus for the kingsnakes. The species in your area include the Mole King, L.calligaster rhombomaculata, the Speckled King, L.getulus holbrooki, & perhaps the Eastern, L. getulus getulus.

~~Greg~~

As far as rat snakes, you have the black rat, and in the extreme NE corner you may encounter the gray rat. Another beautiful rat snake. You even have 2 subspecies of corn snakes, the great plains rat snake, and the Slowinskiis corn, a darker subspecies that alot of people still call the Kisatchie corn.
As far as kings, you have Prairie kings, possible mole X prairie intergrades and Speckled kings. You also have red milks, possible Louisiana milks and Northern scarlet snakes.

Do a search on some of these beautiful snakes and check them out!!
Brian

>>Thanks a lot! From the photo I could swear he/she posed either before or after the dirty deed of feeding on the babies.Poor little things.Nature is cruel,as mama used to say!I didn't even dream about a SNAKE getting them,as I was too worried about neighbor cats.I should have thought of it,as the nest was pretty handy.I should have gotten a squirrel baffle for that plant stand or moved it on a taller stand with a baffle.That's the reason I've never put up a bluebird house here in the sticks,someone told me this very thing would happen.This was a somewhat aggressive snake.She got pretty ticked off with me just coming over to take a better look (after I figured out from a distance it wasn't a pit viper.)We have a fair share of copperheads here,I live in/on Crowleys Ridge,if your from MO you probably know about "The Ridge."(Our claim to hills in NE ARK.)The copperheads are actually a beautiful snake,I respect them and don't get too close to them.This black ratsnake needs to hang around here in the winter,since it helped itself to my birds,and also,I'll thank it greatly to stay away from the birds and work on those dern MOLES in my yard!! Ha Ha! No,she/he did coil and when I tried to run her off the porch,she struck at the broom several times,quite scary since at her length she was pretty good at it.Do they "bite"?
-----

RATS
1.0 Corn snake "Warpath" (KY locale)
0.0.1 Corn snake (KY locale)
1.0 Black rat snake "Havok" (KY locale)
1.1 Black rat snakes "Reaper and Mystique" (MO locale)
1.0 Albino Black rat snake "Malakai" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Everglades rat snake "Deadpool" (Dwight Good stock)
0.1 Greenish rat snake "Rogue" (Dwight Good stock)
0.0.1 Great plains rat snake (TX locale)
1.0 Grey rat snake "Punisher" (White oak phase)(Dwight Good stock)

Good luck and Happy Herping
Brian

Thanks,everybody,for the good info on snakes and for helping identify my baby bird (and rat,mice,mole,ect.)eater "Black Rat".I will try to educate myself with this information on all of the good snakes we have here in my region.Plenty of good,vs the "bad."And they aren't bad,if you leave them alone.

there are good and bad people but those terms do not apply to snakes or any other animal. They are just what they are, and your understanding of or lack there of determines good or evil. The more you know the less evil they become, this is true wether your talking about snakes or kittens. ~ just my opinion anyway.

I agree,hence my comments on good snakes.When I say "bad" I am referring to the results that can happen if one agitates or doesn't use caution when dealing with snakes.Evil only exists in people,not in animals.