Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I just got done watching a guy in florida catch a escaped spitter and to show everyone how it spit he put on saftey glasses and held it directly infront of his face so it would spit at him.....It had to be maybe 12-18" from his face. And he's supposed to be a "proffesional"

HAHA yea im actually watching that as we speak the show is called Animal Police.
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1 Burmese python
1 savu python
1 blood python
2 Uromastyx mali, Nigerian
2 savannah monitors
2 pacman frogs
1 scalata tortoises

I watch animal planet constantly. I have seen this episode before. I think we should start nailing these morons also. Unfortunately, they are part of our problem.

the guy was being a ham for the camera i didnt really like the way he was handleing the king cobra it didnt seem to safe.
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1 Burmese python
1 savu python
1 blood python
2 Uromastyx mali, Nigerian
2 savannah monitors
2 pacman frogs
1 scalata tortoises

If this show is the "Animal Police" show that I remmeber this is actually an exapmpe of the type of PVS who will be ENFORCING any bans or permit systems against venomous herps!!!!!!!!!

I saw him with the king also....looked pretty unsafe to me...and then he takes it out to show off to somone so they can take a pic...what a moron

Albert Killian of the Everglades Outpost...a pretty well respected keeper and figure in this field. While I sometimes grimace at pictures of his handling techniques involving some species, he is not just some yahoo playing with king cobras...he does have a deep understanding of the animal and it's nature, and even though the possibility of a bite may be increased due to the close contact with the animal, he's not just some yuppy playing with a snake...the spitting cobra bit was a bit silly, but he was wearing protective goggles, which pretty much protects him from any effects the venom may cause (barring accidental envenomation through small cuts or whatnot).

Albert and the Outpost do A LOT for herp conservation and by most accounts he is a very knowledgeable and intelligent man. While he may be a little showy with the animals (what Albert did on that show is no more dangerous than what Irwin, Stevens, and even O'Shea have done on other shows.

Its still a stupid move...no matter how great the guy is.
And they were glasses not goggles....venom could have easily dripped down his face and into his eyes.

AP is right. Albert is one of the most respected keepers in FL. The everglades outpost does TONS of work in the conservation of all wildlife here in FL. They also work closely with FL Fish and Wildlife on doing awareness shows, ect. Why do some individuals on here love to bash other hot keepers for their techniques? I do not know him personaly but I know many people who do and he is most definately not the show off type. Just because you all see something on TV doesnt mean OH GOD ITS GOING TO KILL OUR HOBBY. It's just a pattern I see with some people on here that pisses me off. They are so quick to jump on others. Jason, by calling Albert a moron is pretty childish. Do you keep Kings? I dont think so. Just because you wouldnt handle it that way doesn't mean that everyone else who handle's them a different way will get hots banned.

Joe

I guess i dont see how doing tons of work in florida still justify's that type of handling. I understand what your saying but if it was a private keeper that had the same experience as him would it be different? All he was doing was showing off for tv..thats it...and thats irresponsible in my opinion.

Jason,

I did not see the show, nor does it effect me (something shown in the states has little ramification hee in Australia) and I don't know anyone involved.

I will say this in the defence of Albert.

Handling methods that are safe vary from species to species and country to country....using "crush" tongs seems to be acceptable in the USA however here in Australia it is effectively shunned as they are hard to control pressure and break ribs in snakes...I am sure after lots of practise they become useful but if you don't need them why use them?
Same with pinning, why pin when you don't need to? I watch "so called experts" pinning everything they come across because it is a safe method of handling for the keeper...don't worry above the snakes bruising and welfare. Now think about it... how much force would you need to exert on the neck of a 10ft King to pin it so you are able to grab it by the head, more than what you would like on the back on your head being pushed into the dirt or concrete i'll bet!

So you tail them...sure more dangerous for the keeper you say...well thats not really true either. I will use Coastal Taipans (get to about 8 feet, very fast, nervous and intelligent) as an example here (If you have worked with these before you might understand where I am coming from). You pin a Taipan they remember it and for the next 6 to 12 months that snake thinks that its going to get hurt everytime you open that cage to deal with it, so it (quite rightly so) strikes and fights with you everytime and you then pin it to deal with again and it becomes a nasty little circle...your left with a hard to deal with angry snake and the snake feels that it needs to fight for its life everytime you walk past the cage, you then get stress related problems etc etc.
I don't pin anything here (unless absolutely required like a retained eyecap) and use hooks,hands and tubes when required(classed as a generally safe method here in Australia) and the kicker is that my Taipans and incidently most of my other snakes don't strike much and I don't have the stress related problems either.

Have you dealt with Large elapids on a day to day basis?

I won't comment on the spitter, but from what was said just sounds like some showmanship, no harm done.

Not trying to flame just trying throw a different perspective your way,

Regards,

Scott Eipper

I'm with you on the pinning and use of tongs....i use hook and tail when i need to. I only own one elapid..a monocled cobra..and thats all i use on it. His handling of the king wasnt to bad but you could definetly tell he was showing off for the camera. The spitter was just plain stupid in my opinion...if he wants to do that then fine but i think he should know better than to do it on tv.

if you stock or have immediate and direct access to antivenom for your monocle cobra? A zoo doesn't count. If you do, more power to you and a standing applause from me. If you don't, then what you are doing by keeping that monocle is far more dangerous to the hobby than anything Albert did on that show.

I'm not trying to slag you down, just trying to illustrate that there are far worse threats (escaped animals, high profile bites to private keepers, etc.) to this hobby than Albert freehandling a king (or having a spitter spit in his [protected] eyes).

I would have to say that I agree. Nothing against any of the posters on this thread. When people watch animal planet or Nat. Geo. they are seeing what they are referring to as "professionals" no matter how YOU or US look at it. Most people outside of the hobby aren't going to know any better about the do's and dont's of handling these animals or any others. When these individuals are introduced on the set, they are referred to as "such and such of the everglades outpost" having "umpteen years experience" and is a "professional" in "hooblah". While you and I and possibly everyone else within this forum might view his actions as "stupid" or "irresponsible", the viewers aren't going to notice that. They are going to notice that he is "proving a point" as to what those animals can do.

The viewers typically will feel that he is a "professional" handler and knows what he is doing. When you compare him to a private individual who gets bit by his "pet" EDB, there is no comparison. If "so and so" gets bit, then it's going to be considered an unfortunate mishap on TV. If we get bit, it will be considered stupidity on OUR part and we are a danger to society.

Individuals on TV are given much more flexibility with mistakes than private keepers are. I agree that most likely anything that he does on TV, will most likely NOT affect our hobby. The only thing that I can possibly say that he could do that WOULD affect our hobby is to bad-mouth it on TV. As far as his own actions and lack of safe handling, I dont think that too many people will be considering that a problem.

JMO,

Chris

psilocybe, I respect your opinion, but for my money, there's no comparison between Mark O'Shea and Albert Killian. Yes, O'Shea has suffered bites, but they've been from wild snakes in the field, not careless displays with captive ones that Killian seems to like doing. He (Killian) may be experienced and knowledgable, but for my taste, he's too much of a "watch this"
type of handler. My .02.
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Venomous snakes---best hobby on earth!
Bill Huseth

Jason and Bill,

I wasn't trying to make excuses for Albert's handling techniques. As I previously stated, I don't neccesarily approve of the way he handles them as well. What he does is risky, and on that particular program, it did appear he was playing to the camera a bit. I didn't notice (or remember) the glasses vs. goggles bit, maybe next time it's on I'll try and catch it.

Albert's behavior is unlikely to negatively affect the hobby, which is all I really care about. The only reason I shun freehandling is because it creates bad press when a normal, private keeper is doing something risky and gets nailed. If bad press wasn't a factor, I'd say to each his own. If you want cuddle up in bed with a king cobra and a few taipans or whatever, more power to you. Because of Albert's high profile in FL as a reptile rehabilitaor/educator/personality, if he were to get bitten, it'd have no more impact on the hobby than say, if Bill Haast got bitten. I'm not comparing Haast to Killian, just saying the legal ramifications for the rest of the community would be minimal.

Again, Killian and the Outpost have done A LOT of good things for herps. Sure, some of his handling techiniques leave a bad taste in the mouth. But he obviously knows what he is doing, because he's still alive and to my knowledge has not taken any bites, or at least any serious ones.

There was an article in Geographic about a village in Thailand where people routinely freehandle large, apparently docile kings. There is even a picture of a man riding a motorcycle with his young grandchild sitting in front of him, and a large king wrapped around both their necks, facing forward. The snakes are very much intact, both fangs and venom glands. Apparently, in the many decades that the man has been handling and working with kings, he has yet to be bitten. Let's just say he probably does not even know what a snake hook is.

Again, I am in no way condoning Killian's handling techniques. What he is doing could easily get him killed, and I'm sure he knows that. However, he does garner quite a bit of respect in the community, and I know of several well known people in this hobby and field who have great admiration for the man, so there must be a reason for that.

risky (it dont matter who you are). Mark O'Shea is the most professional herpetologist you will ever see barr none!!!!!!!!!!
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Chad Bachman

Nice people suck!!!!!!!

O'Shea is the most professional person we will ever see on any TV show!!!! Like him or not, he is the MAN!!!!

Good to see some people know what they are watching..
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Chad Bachman

Nice people suck!!!!!!!

Or as it usually goes down here in Louisiana..."Hold my beer and watch this!"

Better than 30 years working with venomous and I still can't figure out why people feel they have to put their hands on them.

Peter
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Peter and Sara
Beouf River Reptiles

As mentioned elsewhere in the thread this guy does alot for the herp community in Florida. I doubt he gets paid that well when he's not on tv so why not ham it up a bit. Televisions don't need to post the "Don't try this at home" bit anymore because it goes without saying. As another post had said, this guy is viewed as a proffesional and is not compared to the hot keeping community. What probably did the hobby in more was the fact that there was a loose spitting cobra on the run (k, I didn't watch the show but hey, it would've been neat to see that guy sprayed)

its TV he was protected and many have done much worse before.
ive met him.
He just looks bad doing it cuz he doesnt have a 6 or 7 figure contract and his own show.