Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Anyone know the pros and cons of the open rack systems (Freedom Breeder, Kreature Keeper) versus the cabinet rack systems (Animal Plastics, Jason's Jungle)?

I'm not really concerned with the quality inherent in certain brands, just the performance between the two basic designs.

(Any ideas, theories, and/or testimonials are certainly welcome.)

Thanks In Advance,
Chris
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mean people suck

I have built numerous racks of both designs.

Enclosed racks:

More simple to build

In a cold room they hold heat better.

However, for larger collections they can cost more to heat. Why? Because for larger collection it is much cheaper to use ambient room temps and then just provide a small amount of supplemental heat for thermoregulation. With an enclosed rack there is a lot more thermal mass to heat up and cool off.

With an enclosed rack you can turn all the heat sources off but the thermal mass of the rack continues to hold heat for hours. OTOH, enclosed racks can take hours to heat up the next morning. The longer heating up time is not really that big of a deal, but their tendency to hold heat does not duplicate the often dramatic and quick night time temperature drops that reptiles experience in the wild.

Open racks:

The quicker temperature shifts seen in the wild are more easily duplicated. OTOH, one can also have a more gradual heating and cooling if it's necessary or desired. With an enclosed rack you don't have this choice necessarily.

They are more efficient to heat. I say this assuming anyone using a rack has at least a medium sized collection and will benefit from room heat.

Very easy to add or restrict ventilation.

Very easy to add misting systems (probably not a huge deal for most).

Sides can be covered or left open. Again, you have a choice.

Generally they can be built more secure and the boxes will still slide well. This is more difficult to achieve with enclosed racks. This only applies to open racks where the boxes slide on a track system. Not all open racks are like this.

I think that's it. I want to point out that most of these differences are pretty trivial. I do believe the heating issue is often misunderstood by herpers. The species I keep do best with dramatic night time temperature drops and I prefer that drop to occur pretty quickly.

And I also like how versatile they are. I could easily wrap my open racks in $8 worth of Reflectix insulation and they would essentially be light weight enclosed racks. Or I could just wrap the bottom levels if they were losing heat.

I also like that adding a misting system is so easy. But that is unique to my situation.
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Current snakes:

1.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

2.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

4.3 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

Thanks for the in-depth reply!

However, I'm not sure I understand all the technical terms I've read in similar posts such as "thermal mass". It seems that the best design is the one that works best for the individual. Correct?

I'm mostly keeping Ball Pythons. I keep a constant ambiant room temp of around 75-78 degrees. Does this qualify me for the open system rack? LOL =)

I think I uderstand that the open/closed rack system depends partially on ambiant snakeroom temps. Colder rooms would do best with closed systems, and heated rooms with open systems. Right?

I know it's not that simple, but...

To be honest, I like the look and weight of the open rack systems. However, it's not really up to me. My animals should decide. They don't really care about my aesthetic opinions. They want what makes them happiest.

Does that make sense?

Chris
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mean people suck

>>However, I'm not sure I understand all the technical terms I've read in similar posts such as "thermal mass".

Think of thermal mass as the ability of an object to hold heat. This is partially due to its weight, but also it's other properties.

Let's say we put blocks of aluminum and stone in the oven, each weighing one pound. If we heated them both up to 200* and then pulled them from the oven which one would hold heat longer? It would be the stone as it has greater thermal mass.

If we then took two blocks of stone, one weighing two pounds and the other weighing one pound, the two pound block would hold it's heat longer. The thermal mass properties are the same but the two pound block would hold the heat longer because there is more of it.

Thermal mass is beneficial for efficient heating, but it also interferes with efficient cooling. So again, its use and importance depends on the species in question and how it's being kept.

>>It seems that the best design is the one that works best for the individual. Correct?

Absolutely.

>>I'm mostly keeping Ball Pythons. I keep a constant ambiant room temp of around 75-78 degrees. Does this qualify me for the open system rack? LOL =)

I would absolutely use an open rack for Ball Pythons under those conditions. No doubt about it. Again, I would prefer the rapid cooling you could duplicate during the brumation/breeding season. I know of one big name in the BP world who uses open racks for this reason. I won't name any names as I know BP people can often be very protective of their "recipes"

>>I think I uderstand that the open/closed rack system depends partially on ambiant snakeroom temps. Colder rooms would do best with closed systems, and heated rooms with open systems. Right?

>>I know it's not that simple, but...

I think collection size and the night time temp drops are what's more important. If I kept five snakes total and they were in a cool room I would give a slight advantage to the enclosed rack -- especially if the species could or needed to be kept warm at night. If they were a species that did well with quick and dramatic night-time temperature drops, an enclosed rack might still restrict this to some degree.

How well this relates to your personal philosophy on keeping ball pythons is up to you. I know how I would keep them.

If I kept 15 snakes I would never consider keeping them in a cool room. At that point the efficiency of ambient room heat will start to pay for itself and I would make every attempt to use it.

There are obvious situation where this is not practical, obviously. If one were renting and the snake room was too large to heat, for example.

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Current snakes:

1.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

2.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

4.3 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

Thanks again!

I've decided on the open rack design. Now I just need to find some online plans for building one.

(My stepfather works with both metal and wood, so finding the tools and the space to work won't be a problem.)

I hope a DIY rack is worth the savings! =)

Good Things,
Chris
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mean people suck

>>I've decided on the open rack design. Now I just need to find some online plans for building one.

Arbreptiles.com has one for the Iris CB-110 box.

>>I hope a DIY rack is worth the savings! =)

Now that you mention it, that's another benefit of open, track-style racks for Ball Pythons.

With a typical rack a lot of material is wasted when building around boxes larger than the typical sweater box.

For example. For a sweaterbox rack one could cut ten shelves from a single sheet of melamine.

But for a Iris CB-70 box that is just a bit larger than a sweater box, you can only cut five (I think that's right). The box is not even 50% larger but you end up using more than twice the wood.

To make a long story somewhat shorter, this is not as big of a deal with the open, track-style racks. Material useage is a bit more efficient and you can also use cheaper materials for the tops so any waste is not as painful to your wallet.

Great! Thanks for the link!

I checked out the page. (I already had the incubation page bookmarked. LOL) I'm a little concerned with the plywood, though. Wouldn't plywood be a fire hazard when using heat tape? Maybe not.

I'm sure Clay knows what he's doing, and since you recommended the site...

Thanks Again,
Chris
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mean people suck

>>I'm a little concerned with the plywood, though. Wouldn't plywood be a fire hazard when using heat tape? Maybe not.

Plywood is a fire-rated product. People use heat tape around it all the time. I think most of the issues with heat tape is the tape itself, not what it's attached to.

But do your own research and decide what you're comfortable with. I'm not completely comfortable making heating recommendations.
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Current snakes:

1.1 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Silver/Yellow)

2.2 Gonyosoma oxycephala - (Green)

4.3 Gonyosoma janseni - (Black)

Understood. And thanks again...one more time! =)

Chris
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mean people suck

A good thing to do with heat tape in any under-cage application is to use a sheat-metal sheath or covering over the heat tape like Freedom Breeder and others do. The boxes then should come in contact with the metal. This helps spread the heat over the area of the metal (i.e. for 4"-wide heat tape, the metal covering could be 6" wide) and helps reduce too high of hotspot temps.

Some snake breeders in the early 80's caught onto the benefit of metal over heat cables. The old Sandmar sweater boxes (the 1st commercial rack unit on the West coast) used aluminum channel over heat cable, and that made the difference.

Years ago I got some silicon heat mats (still available medical supply houses) that were 1" wide x 18" long. I adhered that to a piece of aluminum and siliconed that along the lower edge of a glass tank. Worked great.

I saw a photo somewhere online that showed a thin 4-6" sheet of metal stripped along the back of the rack below the tub. I was wondering how they heated the metal. So this is just a sheet of metal covering the heat tape? Ingenious!

Thanks for the idea!

(Of course, I'd rather have back heat. I hear so many horror stories about belly heat. But I guess most open rack systems use belly heat anyway, huh? Thanks again!)

Chris
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mean people suck