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I had a discussion with someone regarding wether corn snakes are classified as rat snakes or not. My contention is that they are, and always have been, Elaphe Guttata, also known as red rat snakes. The other person claims that this has been changed and corns are no longer scientifically considered to be part of Elaphe.

Can someone with real knowledge confirm which is correct please? Citations of papers or links would be great.

Thanks much,

Tom

New World ratsnakes are Pantherophis as of 2004, meaning that Corn Snakes are now Pantherophis guttatus.

I'm no academic, but I believe this move was to fully distinguish New World from Old World/Asian ratsnakes, which keep the Elaphe designation.

I'll see if I can pull out some references later, unless anyone beats me to it.

Interesting. So based on that, although the scientific name has changed, corns are still considered rat snakes, correct?

As far as I know it's the scientific designation that had the reshuffle, not the "common" names.

References (shamelessly plagiarised from another forum - sorry Tanya if you're looking in!):

- 2002 Molecular Phylogenetics and Evolution 25(3): 465-476 by Frank T. Burbrink. Research using mtDNA, showing that the taxon previously referred to as Elaphe guttata actually consists of three distinct species, E. guttata, E. emoryi and Elaphe slowinskii. This immediately elevated the Corn snake from sub-species (Elaphe guttata guttata) to full-species (Elaphe guttatus).

- 2002 Russian Journal of Herpetology 9(2): 105-124 by Urs Utiger, Notker Helfenberger, Beat Schätti, Catherine Schmidt, Markus Ruf and Vincent Ziswiler. Research using mtDNA showed that North American Rat Snakes of the genus Elaphe are a monophyletic lineage different Old World Rat Snakes and resurrected the available name Pantherophis Fitzinger for all North American taxa.

The Pantherophis name change has been under consideration since 2002 and seems to have been widely accepted in late 2004/early 2005.

Excellent. Thanks for your time!

I'm not sure that this was clear to you, so I thought I would clarify -- it isn't just corns that changed. All of what used to be North American Elaphe is now Pantherophis. Black rats are Pantherophis obsoletus obsoletus, etc. So, insofar as your original post goes, yes, corns are still part of the same group they've always been part of. The name of the whole group changed.

Yea, that was the way I understood it. Thanks!

Notice that all the species/subspecies names are now feminine when used with Pantherophis. Obsoleta becomes obsoletus, guttata becomes guttatus. However, any snake named after someone remains the same, i.e. Pantherophis guttatus emoryi and Pantherophis obsoletus rossalleni.
Brian

>>I had a discussion with someone regarding wether corn snakes are classified as rat snakes or not. My contention is that they are, and always have been, Elaphe Guttata, also known as red rat snakes. The other person claims that this has been changed and corns are no longer scientifically considered to be part of Elaphe.
>>
>>Can someone with real knowledge confirm which is correct please? Citations of papers or links would be great.
>>
>>Thanks much,
>>
>>Tom
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RATS
1.0 Corn snake "Warpath" (KY locale)
0.0.1 Corn snake (KY locale)
1.0 Black rat snake "Havok" (KY locale)
1.1 Black rat snakes "Reaper and Mystique" (MO locale)
1.0 Albino Black rat snake "Malakai" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Everglades rat snake "Deadpool" (Dwight Good stock)
0.1 Greenish rat snake "Rogue" (Dwight Good stock)
0.0.1 Great plains rat snake (TX locale)
1.0 Grey rat snake "Punisher" (White oak phase)(Dwight Good stock)

Good luck and Happy Herping
Brian